Bin Laden is DEAD!

[JJ]

Yeh, saw that movie - Charlie Wilson's War. V interesting, and illuminating, even for a Hollywood movie.
I recommend it.

[JJ]

PS what's this thing about bleeding hearts    A compliment or what?

[AndyHB]

Can you admit that the bigger mesasaage of Christ is that you should love your enemies, and those who persecute you, that if your emeny hits one cheek, you should offer the other, give peace in response to violence.  jesus was one of the many who realised that a violent response escalates.  Peace gives both sides a way out.  That is the biggesr admission that Christ would like, I'm sure.

Boudi, not quite sure that you haven't simply listed a selection of Christ's teaching rather than applying them for the 21st century.

[AndyHB]

V interesting, and illuminating, even for a Hollywood movie.
I recommend it.

Quite agree, JJ - even if Tom Hanks was a bit naff.

[pow wow]

Boudi can you provide me with a verse where Christ tells us to lock a person up in a cage until they die? Silly really. I don't believe Christ's message of love is the love you preach. Were God's chosen people violating love when they followed God's instructions and went to war? Were they in violation when they followed God demand to kill all the inhabitants? No of course not. God's love is not the hippie love of the 1960's. Osama was a killer. He was infact planning more attacks. He was killed. He died in terror hiding behing his wife. He died the way he dcided to make others die. God will not be hanging blame on those Navy Seals, Jimmy Carter, America, Obama nor Osama's daddy, for the manner he was taken out nor for the evil Osama did. God will judge Osama and Osama will answer. Christ did not confront the money changers with hippie love. He confronted them in a violent manner all the while being true to the message of love. Christ's behavior so scared them they fled the temple. Point is, your notion of Christ's love is not what He showed us. You have a different love an unrealistic one. Christ was being real, he was true to His message of love when he sent the tables flying and the merchants fleeing.

mclarkie, if America is totally to blame like you insist it is, then what on earth would give you or me or anybody the right to stop further attacks planned by Osama? After all America is TOTALLY to blame. What would give us the right to catch him and send him to a celll for the rest of his life if America is totally to blame as you insist?

[Jan]

Boudi can you provide me with a verse where Christ tells us to lock a person up in a cage until they die? Silly really.

???

I don't believe Christ's message of love is the love you preach. Were God's chosen people violating love when they followed God's instructions and went to war? Were they in violation when they followed God demand to kill all the inhabitants? No of course not. God's love is not the hippie love of the 1960's. Osama was a killer. He was infact planning more attacks. He was killed. He died in terror hiding behing his wife. He died the way he dcided to make others die. God will not be hanging blame on those Navy Seals, Jimmy Carter, America, Obama nor Osama's daddy, for the manner he was taken out nor for the evil Osama did. God will judge Osama and Osama will answer. Christ did not confront the money changers with hippie love. He confronted them in a violent manner all the while being true to the message of love. Christ's behavior so scared them they fled the temple.

Deary me! Is there any point in this - at all???

Point is, your notion of Christ's love is not what He showed us. You have a different love an unrealistic one. Christ was being real, he was true to His message of love when he sent the tables flying and the merchants fleeing.

Obviously not 

[pow wow]

Jan,
Wow that was a deep response. Little thought, no relextions, no grasp, no sharing of ones thoughts on the topic, just a comedic crack at the reality that Christ did infact resort to violent behavior while not deviating from the message of love. Nice.

[administrator]

mclarkie, if America is totally to blame like you insist it is, then what on earth would give you or me or anybody the right to stop further attacks planned by Osama? After all America is TOTALLY to blame. What would give us the right to catch him and send him to a celll for the rest of his life if America is totally to blame as you insist?

Well youve answered your own question, I think
I said Americas FOREIGN policy is to blame. the policy is simple, it works like theis, they have the oil resource that we need, we will therefor destabilise the region to preventing them from uniting under an independent currency, independent of the dollar. Sadam wanted to sell oil in Euros, now Cadaffi, (the new bogie man) wanted to unite Arab nations under a new gold only currency for trading their oil, this means they would sell oil at what ever price they wish to sell it at. hence America's involvement in Lybia and now Syria..
Americas meddling in the east will continue and the Arabs resistance will continue, in one form or another that you can bet on that.

[Jan]

Jan,
Wow that was a deep response. Little thought, no relextions, no grasp, no sharing of ones thoughts on the topic, just a comedic crack at the reality that Christ did infact resort to violent behavior while not deviating from the message of love. Nice.

Pow wow - I have responded to you previously as have others - but you do not seem to be able to take on board what is being said to you - so really is there any point in continuing with this? You seem 'hell bent' on portraying Christ as someone who is not of peace - someone who would be standing up for vengeance and violence towards other human beings   and I do not recognize this 'christ'  - not when I know that Christ is of peace and love (love that cares about others - even our enemies).

I have already pointed out what happened with Christ and the stall holders according to the bible. No violence was used on the stall holders.

[AndyHB]

I don't believe Christ's message of love is the love you preach. Were God's chosen people violating love when they followed God's instructions and went to war? Were they in violation when they followed God demand to kill all the inhabitants? No of course not. ...  He was infact planning more attacks. He was killed. He died in terror hiding behing his wife.

PW, to compare the West's actions to those of the people of Israel is fatuous.  The people of Israel were a small community, initially of nomads, who had to fight for their survival and their nationhood.  In no way are we in the West fighting for our survival.  Amused by your comment about hiding behind his wife - as I understand the current US Administration statements, this was not the case.

As for his planning new attacks, the last time al Quaeda managed to make a successful attack on any part of the globe was our own 7/7 (2005).  Is he/they really that serious a threat?

He died the way he dcided to make others die.

Precisely.  He died in exactly the same way that the Americans claim is not 'Christian'!!

God will judge Osama and Osama will answer. Christ did not confront the money changers with hippie love. He confronted them in a violent manner all the while being true to the message of love. Christ's behavior so scared them they fled the temple. Point is, your notion of Christ's love is not what He showed us. You have a different love an unrealistic one. Christ was being real, he was true to His message of love when he sent the tables flying and the merchants fleeing.

I suspect that God will judge the larger picture and the larger involvement, PW.  Your own example - the cleansing of the Temple - involves no deaths.  Doesn't this suggest that your application of the lessons is flawed?

mclarkie, if America is totally to blame like you insist it is, then what on earth would give you or me or anybody the right to stop further attacks planned by Osama? After all America is TOTALLY to blame. What would give us the right to catch him and send him to a celll for the rest of his life if America is totally to blame as you insist?

Not sure that anyone has suggested that "America is totally to blame" (other than yourself in this post).  Rather, we have pointed out that the West - as a whole - has questions to answer regarding their involvement in the overall picture in the development of several people such as Bin Laden.

Jan,
Wow that was a deep response. Little thought, no relextions, no grasp, no sharing of ones thoughts on the topic, just a comedic crack at the reality that Christ did infact resort to violent behavior while not deviating from the message of love. Nice.

I think Jan was pointing out that your arguments are often so shallow and scripturally unsupported as to make them somewhat spurious.  As far as I am aware, Jesus committed no violence against people, despite - in many cases - massive intimidation.

[pow wow]

Jan, take on board? So your opinions are to be taken on board and to h..l with mine. I gotcha. Nice. Christ did not stab or punch the money changers I'm sure. But do you think as He was over turning those tables nobody was bruised? Christ was very careful and took time to make sure all those tables overturned in exactly the right way, hurting no one.LOL! In the mad dash out of the temple, no one was shoved, no one tripped and fell hurting themselves. LOL! Common sense tells me it was not a calmly organized event with out personal injury. It was violent. You know some say spanking your child is violent. Some say smashing a window with a brick is violent. I say overturning table , yelling, and chasing people is violent but can and should be used as Christ proves. Wars are violent and deadly but even God commanded they be fought. This is a result of our fallen nature. A result of sin.

[Jan]

Jan, take on board? So your opinions are to be taken on board and to h..l with mine. I gotcha. Nice.

I think you have misunderstood. What I have put here I have backed up with scripture. You have been asked for scripture reference but so far nothing (apart from the stall holders thing - and that has been explained). On the other hand scripture has been quoted to show Christs view of peace and love. Do you think all that goes out of the window? Christ peaceful and loving sometimes but then not at others?

Christ did not stab or punch the money changers I'm sure. But do you think as He was over turning those tables nobody was bruised? Christ was very careful and took time to make sure all those tables overturned in exactly the right way, hurting no one.LOL! In the mad dash out of the temple, no one was shoved, no one tripped and fell hurting themselves. LOL! Common sense tells me it was not a calmly organized event with out personal injury. It was violent.

Is there evidence of anyone being hurt - never mind thinking or what you might think - is there evidence of anyone being hurt?

You don't know do you?

I am sure you or anyone could imagine people actually being hurt - I think they call it artistic license in the film industry -but in this instance we do not know. We do know that no swords and shedding of blood was involved (think they would have at least been mentioned don't you  )

You know some say spanking your child is violent. Some say smashing a window with a brick is violent. I say overturning table , yelling, and chasing people is violent but can and should be used as Christ proves. Wars are violent and deadly but even God commanded they be fought. This is a result of our fallen nature. A result of sin.

It is actually a result of many things Pow wow - mainly in the negative. It is increased by perpetuation of violence & hatred. Hatred does not overcome hatred it merely perpetuates it - hatred actually feeds hatred so it grows stronger. If you want to counteract it - you don't use hatred/violence. You deal with it in another way (usually by communication).

[AndyHB]

I say overturning table , yelling, and chasing people is violent but can and should be used as Christ proves. Wars are violent and deadly but even God commanded they be fought. This is a result of our fallen nature. A result of sin.

My last comment on the topic for now - until we get some sensible debate going again:  there is violence that damages things and even property, PW, and there is violence that injures or kills people.  At NO point in the Gospels does Christ condone the latter.

[Boudi]

Andy,
There are bleeding hearts here in Canada who want to pamper and pardon violent criminals because these criminals had bad parents and a rough upbringing. These bleeding hearts are usualy liberals, socialists and the French separitists. I totaly reject the notion that because Jimmy Carter supplied weapons to Osama to fight the Russians, Jimmy must shoulder some of the blame for Osama's terrorism on, before and after 9/11.
.

America's foreign policy is totally to blame, It was Congressman, Charlie Wilson who raised the CIA budget to the Afghan freedom fighters, The Mujahideen.
 
It's all on Wikipedia.

For his efforts, Wilson was presented with the Honoured Colleague Award by the
CIA. He became the first civilian to receive the award.^[12]
However, Wilson's role remains controversial because most of the aid was
supplied to Islamist hardliner Gulbuddin Hekmatyar,
now a senior Taliban leader and a supporter
of al-Qaeda.^[13]

You can't say that America is toi blame, it implies that America might be to blame, and there would that put things?  You'll be saying that violence begets violence next, when obviously it stops it

[Boudi]

Boudi can you provide me with a verse where Christ tells us to lock a person up in a cage until they die? Silly really. I don't believe Christ's message of love is the love you preach. Were God's chosen people violating love when they followed God's instructions and went to war? Were they in violation when they followed God demand to kill all the inhabitants? No of course not. God's love is not the hippie love of the 1960's. Osama was a killer. He was infact planning more attacks. He was killed. He died in terror hiding behing his wife. He died the way he dcided to make others die. God will not be hanging blame on those Navy Seals, Jimmy Carter, America, Obama nor Osama's daddy, for the manner he was taken out nor for the evil Osama did. God will judge Osama and Osama will answer. Christ did not confront the money changers with hippie love. He confronted them in a violent manner all the while being true to the message of love. Christ's behavior so scared them they fled the temple. Point is, your notion of Christ's love is not what He showed us. You have a different love an unrealistic one. Christ was being real, he was true to His message of love when he sent the tables flying and the merchants fleeing.

mclarkie, if America is totally to blame like you insist it is, then what on earth would give you or me or anybody the right to stop further attacks planned by Osama? After all America is TOTALLY to blame. What would give us the right to catch him and send him to a celll for the rest of his life if America is totally to blame as you insist?

You haven't provided me with any evidence from scripture that Christ approves of violence....and your case pretty much falls down.  The sense of elation you feel at the death of a man is contrary to the letter and spirit of Christ's message, something you are not willing to face, but try to evade.  Your whole case seems to depend upon Jesus losing it with some tables.  You may as well say Christ approves of ****, wife beating and pub brawls!  ( I don't think he did btw)