Bin Laden is DEAD!

[Boudi]

Jan,
Wow that was a deep response. Little thought, no relextions, no grasp, no sharing of ones thoughts on the topic, just a comedic crack at the reality that Christ did infact resort to violent behavior while not deviating from the message of love. Nice.

Again, no evidence, just a vague reference to table tipping.  Perhaps that's what the Navy seals did, went in and tipped his table over...the rest is trimmings...especially if he's been dead for 9 years!

[JJ]

Your whole case seems to depend upon Jesus losing it with some tables. 

LOL 

[Boudi]

Jan, take on board? So your opinions are to be taken on board and to h..l with mine. I gotcha. Nice. Christ did not stab or punch the money changers I'm sure. But do you think as He was over turning those tables nobody was bruised? Christ was very careful and took time to make sure all those tables overturned in exactly the right way, hurting no one.LOL! In the mad dash out of the temple, no one was shoved, no one tripped and fell hurting themselves. LOL! Common sense tells me it was not a calmly organized event with out personal injury. It was violent. You know some say spanking your child is violent. Some say smashing a window with a brick is violent. I say overturning table , yelling, and chasing people is violent but can and should be used as Christ proves. Wars are violent and deadly but even God commanded they be fought. This is a result of our fallen nature. A result of sin.

This is so poor as to be laughable, especially in light of Christ's warnings when Peter drew his sword.  Also, there may, possibly be some unreported chafing of skin at the temple, but this was a deliberate assasination of an unarmed man.  We see that Christ disapproves of attacking an armed man, therefore your comments about the goons on the roof falls flat on it's a***.

[pow wow]

Boudi,
Good grief, Christ used violence to deal with the sin and bad behavior of the money changers. The tables were not the issue. So you see that episode as a joke. You see it as a joke because to take is seriously you would have to admit to the justification in Christ going into a righteous rage and lashing out. Nice for you. No way around the fact that Christ did not kindly ask them to set up shop elsewhere. But today you would say to Jesus, you behaved wrong, you should have kindly asked them to move and if they didn't you just except it.LOL!

No the Bible doesn't say a person was bruised or hit by a table or tripped. God gave us common sense. And well, like I wrote, this wasn't a carefully planned and executed event. So use the common sense God gave us. Christ didn't condem the orders to kill we find in the Bible. I thank the Lord non of you are responsible for the saftey of your nation. There is a real war against terror being fought. I thank the Lord those that pretend terrorists don't exist or that they should be pampered and pardoned, are not in charge of our saftey. I have to except that God allowed the execution of Osama for a reason. Probably for several reasons. Perhaps God decided Osama will never kill again his chance is up. I don't think God allowed it because God's plan was for Osama is to be a slaughtered lamb for the faith of Islam.
Boy some of you are really stretching to suggest there is no difference in the execution of Osama and going out and killing innocent people or raping and pillaging. Yikes!
Boudi, Osama was not unarmed. He was being protected by armed goons. He was a terrorist the most wanted one in the world. Don't be foolish. He had a loaded weapon somewhere in his bedroom. No terrorist would be without. Good thing the navy seals were quicker than he was. Something tells me that if he was just arrested you all would be ranting against the devil being put on trial in the US. Bet you would all insist on some where in Europe. I detect that what this really boils down to with most of you is a simmering resentment or hatred of the USA. The execution of Osama is merely an exuse to parade your false notion of you morlal superiority.
Christ and the sword Peter had? Christ was to die, he knew this, why would he ecourage Peter to stop it? Christ is called the Lamb. A sheep walks to it's slaughter.       

[Boudi]

...and you use the tables as an opt out for Christian behaviour.


Saying that God decided Osama's time up is no different to the stance that the people who flew the plane into the towers had.  It is our interpretation of God's will.

As to whether Osama was armed, perhaps you knew better than the Americans who have made it clear he wasn't.  It makes no difference to Christ's stated stance on the matter.

I am interested in your views on the slaughterhouse.  Lambs are frightened, cowering and afraid,  They smell the blood and are terrified.  I think you'll find that the interpretation with regard to Christ is that he felt the same, but went regardless of that fear.

[Martin]

Wow, you go away for the weekend and pages are posted.

Pow Wow I see nothing in any of your posts which exhibits agape Love. I see nothing that will change the world to be a better place. 

[pow wow]

Perhaps some of you might study Romans 13:1-14
There we find that the state or our rulers are justified in using the sword to destroy those that do evil. It also tells us that we are to love each other. So we have instruction in our daily personal lives and instruction in the roles our states or rulers have. They are justified in wielding the sword to protect us. Those navy seals were not sinning against God when they executed Osama. I thank them.

[Boudi]

Your stance is no different to anyone else who has twisted scripture to allow them to use violence.  I'm sure you can justify anything by clipping from here or there, but it doesn't mean your stance is supported by the whole ethos.  There are those on the other side who could use even the same clipping to justify their death count.  The two of you are the same
 

[pow wow]

Boudi, oh wise one,
Are you suggesting I've taken those verses out of context?LOL! Oh please enlighten me. Please show me how I've twisted the verse telling us our rulers are responsible to use the sword to go after evil. Or is it as I suspect, you just toss the verses that make you uncomfortable or contradict your stance into the garbage. Please feel free to go through them verse by verse and highlihght my error in understanding them.

[Boudi]

I will happily do so when you respond to the wquestions put by a number of us some pages ago, and which you choose to ignore.  i see that you've had to move to the words of Paul, having found no solace in the gospels, apart from table abuse.

[Martin]

I can't see how the killing of an umarmed man counts as 'wielding the sword to protect us'.  Nor can I see how we are supposed to be 'protected' by the destruction and maiming of so many civilians.  To me it seems a dead cert that those sorts of action will make enemies and incite retalliation.

For what it's worth I think you are misinterpreting Romans 13 as a passage that is applicabe to this case.  In Afghanistan, it could easily be argued that the Taliban were 'the authority', and in Pakistan the Pakistanni Government are 'the authority'.  Should people look upon these as powers instituted by God, to be obeyed and not questioned?   And our western powers are not 'authorities' like the Romans were.  Since the introduction of democracy we are the authority, we are the decision makers and those in positions of power are our servants, put there by us.  We have a personal responsiobility to lobby for change when our countries commit crimes of torture and assassination, we have a personal responsibility to speak out when others' lives are recklessly put at risk or treated as second class, as if they are not important.  The Bible is not some instruction manual for those who wish to blow the brains out of their foes.   Paul would be aghast if he knew his words were being interpreted by people like you, as some sort of licence to exterminate. 

[Boudi]

ah, the Ok for killing an unarmed man in front of his family was covered in the turningh over of tables.  I'm amazed you can't see the parellel.

I'm just off out to mug a  granny, as covered in Jesus's treatment of a fig tree.

[pow wow]

Boudi your mention of Peter and his sword is way off. Christ no doubt had fear that night but He was going to sacrifice his life for us anyway. Why? Because of His love for you and me. The real love not that strange love you promote. Christ could have called on the angels to rescue Him but He did not. This has no link to the role of the state to use the sword to destroy those that would do evil to it's people. I again go to Romans for how Christians should understand that the state is justified in the eyes of God when it uses the sword. Please show me how I don't understand the very clear instruction these verses provide us with?
Interesting you have already tossed the book of Romans into the garbage. Don't like it eh!

[Jan]

Perhaps some of you might study Romans 13:1-14
There we find that the state or our rulers are justified in using the sword to destroy those that do evil. It also tells us that we are to love each other. So we have instruction in our daily personal lives and instruction in the roles our states or rulers have. They are justified in wielding the sword to protect us. Those navy seals were not sinning against God when they executed Osama. I thank them.

so what Jesus says, His message of love & peace - goes straight out the window? 

Want to study 'Romans' a bit further?
have a look here

what do you make of those then Pow wow?

[pow wow]

Jan,
I am a God fearing Christian. I belive in the book, the blood and the blessed hope. I've seen that atheist site before. Their contradictions are not contraditions if you read in CONTEXT. But it has been my experience that even when you show how their accusation of contradiction actually isn't, it does nothing. For them to admit no contradiction would turn their world upside down. So it is pointless to explain or for you to even read the clear instuctions for us to love each other and the states responsibility and justification in using the sword to destroy those that do evil. Or perhaps Osama was not evil in your eyes. Perhaps you do not believe there is such a thing as evil and those that use it and are controled by it.