Bin Laden is DEAD!

[Jan]

Oh, I guess Tangneffedd didn't mention that my dad was a minister. A Bible college teacher as well as a buisness man and farmer in his later years. I'm no stranger to Romans. It was my choice to take my high schooling in an evangelical Christian school. No, I'm no stranger it's not new to me at all.

Why would she need to mention that your dad was a minister or a Bible college teacher or business man or farmer? - as far as I can tell this is irrelevant to this debate. What bearing does it have whatever your dad was/did to what knowledge or lack of knowledge you have on the Bible?

Jan, forget your atheist web site, I have, just pick a contradiction and you and I can debate if the scripture is a contradiction or not. I will not use a site to make my arguments but I will use my King James and a couple Bible commentaries.

You don't get it do you? The point I was trying to make by giving you the link to the atheist website with the contradictions, has completely washed over your head it seems 

Perhaps you will learn something if you don't forget the atheist site - but actually bother reading it instead and working through it. Plenty of people calling themselves 'Christians' won't do - because they don't like a challenge to their faith/belief - (and the atheist site could have that affect I guess). It is way out of their 'comfort zone'.

[Boudi]

My mother used to drive buses, if that gives any weight to my arguments
  She later became an inspector, and people were fearful of her.

[Jan]

My mother used to drive buses, if that gives any weight to my arguments
  She later became an inspector, and people were fearful of her.

My (Earth) Dad was a joiner (now retired) - he was a dab hand at making tables (we still have one of his coffee tables from the 70's  )

Maybe that means I should know all about tables? (or is that a touchy subject  )

[JJ]

My Dad was a farmer and a lay Methodist preacher and he had five old tables in the barns.  They're still there actually, might scrub them up this summer and put one or two out in the yard.

[pow wow]

LOL! Good grief you two!
Jan, Boudi accused me of those verses in Romans being new to me. Not true. Yes being a S.O.P(son of a preacher) I was introduced to the word of God right from my adoption. That would be 44yrs. Get real. How much time do you spend in the word of God in a day, a week a month? Not much, like Boudi. Yes, I haven't spent all those years just taking what a preacher says as the truth. Daily reading and devotional time really is needed to understand God message to us. But being the two of you aren't big on reading and devotions and big on ignoring the complete picture of God's word, what's the point of going on about it? So I leave it there. Yes I do know the scriptures and Jan MY POINT is I will not use atheist web sites to learn about my scriptures. MY POINT is I will happily dabate any supposed contradiction with YOU. I will with gladness show both you and Boudi I'm no stranger to the Bible. With gladness I  will show you things in that book that I know neither of you would ever have thought. You know one of my favourite things is inviting JW's into my house and having a great and lively debate on scripture. Trouble is once they realize I know my way in the Bible and am no weak Christian, they head to the door. Oh well,a couple more are sure to come a calling soon enough.
Anyway I will debate a contradiction with you, not read atheist web sites. Feel free to use them and put it in your own words as I'm sure you will have to do.

[AndyHB]

So one is to close there eyes or ignore the fact that the state is justified according to the New Testament in using the sword to destroy those that are doing evil.

No-one is saying that, PW.  Rather all of us are saying that Romans 13: 1-7 - which is talking about our responsibility and answerability to the nation state we live in - is not a good passage to build your argument on.  After all, the passage that you love to quote from this section is actually dealing with the punishment of those people who, despite being citizens of that country, fail to abide by the laws of that land where they match God's laws.  To use the passage as an apologetic for a secretive raid on and assassination of a citizen of another country in a third-party country is not a valid argument.

[AndyHB]

It was my choice to take my high schooling in an evangelical Christian school.

Ah, that might explain your problems, PW.  I wouldn't trust any of those even with a barge-pole    One advantage of doing 'high schooling' in a state or non-church school is that you get to debate the silly things that some teachers come up with.  Not so easy in a church school!!  I remember easily disproving things that my teachers claimed, even from their own material!

...  but I will use my King James and a couple Bible commentaries.

Another explanation for our problems, PW.  Despite its celebrating its 400th anniversary this year, the King James is not the most accurate of translations; furthermore, it no longer relates as well to British English as once it did (though it is closer to American English).  What Bible commentaries are you using?  I use things like the IVP Bible Commentary and the Baker Commentaries

[pow wow]

Andy,
An assasination is what happened to Martin Luther King or JFK. Osama was a TERRORIST. He masterminded an attack on the USA. And other nations. No help came from our supposed ally Pakistan. He was being hid and helped by those with some power in that nation. They betrayed us. Osama was executed after a fire fight with his armed goons. He was in that sense an armed man. No terrorist would be without. Those verses do not tell it only applies within one states borders. Did I miss it? No, where ever they are hidden. We share a planet I believe this deals with those that will do evil where ever on this planet they are hiding out. To this day my people the Canadian Cree do not recognize the Canadian US border neither does our traditional enemies the Blackfoot. Fighting evil knows no borders.
JJ,
Parsons make good farmers. I have a collection of dads old step ladders. Being a horticulturalist I've use them for running vines and flowers on throughout my flower beds. Have to be well anchored in the ground though. We get terrible winds racing down the Rocky Mountains.

[Martin]

An assasination is what happened to Martin Luther King or JFK. Osama was a TERRORIST.

An assassination is a political murder, and it doesn't matter what a person is accused of, that they are still entitled to a fair trial rather than an an execution without one. The rule of law is what makes us different from the terrorist. Sacrifice the rule of law and we become just like them, just as you have.

[pow wow]

Martin,
What do you mean accused of? Osama on video took the credit for the attacks. Not only that all evidence proves this as well. But you would have him either living the rest of his days in that luxury compound or after some sort of trial in Europe, being pampered in one of your fancy prisons for the famous. But I suspect he would remain in Pakistan being that you belive Obama was breaking the law going after that killer. The rule of law. Which is that? Could I get this rule of law to read? Don't bother if it's some UN declaration. The UN, one of the most corrupt org. on this planet.

[Martin]

US law bans assassinations - Yes you could get a copy- consult your lawyer.  Taking credit for something and actually doing it need not necessarily be the same thing, that's why you need a trial (also obligatory under US law for captured enemies). 

[Boudi]

LOL! Good grief you two!
Jan, Boudi accused me of those verses in Romans being new to me. Not true. Yes being a S.O.P(son of a preacher) I was introduced to the word of God right from my adoption. That would be 44yrs. Get real. How much time do you spend in the word of God in a day, a week a month? Not much, like Boudi. Yes, I haven't spent all those years just taking what a preacher says as the truth. Daily reading and devotional time really is needed to understand God message to us. But being the two of you aren't big on reading and devotions and big on ignoring the complete picture of God's word, what's the point of going on about it? So I leave it there. Yes I do know the scriptures and Jan MY POINT is I will not use atheist web sites to learn about my scriptures. MY POINT is I will happily dabate any supposed contradiction with YOU. I will with gladness show both you and Boudi I'm no stranger to the Bible. With gladness I  will show you things in that book that I know neither of you would ever have thought. You know one of my favourite things is inviting JW's into my house and having a great and lively debate on scripture. Trouble is once they realize I know my way in the Bible and am no weak Christian, they head to the door. Oh well,a couple more are sure to come a calling soon enough.
Anyway I will debate a contradiction with you, not read atheist web sites. Feel free to use them and put it in your own words as I'm sure you will have to do.

I did nothing of the sort, I said you were suddenly using a new piece of scripture. You were basing your whole case on tables, then suddenly basing it on Romans, and acting as though each small piece outstripped the rest of scripoture ( which was being used bu other members who also seem failiar with that obscure text, the Bible)

[Boudi]

My Dad was a farmer and a lay Methodist preacher and he had five old tables in the barns.  They're still there actually, might scrub them up this summer and put one or two out in the yard.

Wow, I reckon that gets you closest to Jesus! Henning Wehn tells us that Mel Gibson tells us that Jesus invented furniture, so maybe that's why it's so important to the thread.

[Boudi]

Andy,
An assasination is what happened to Martin Luther King or JFK. Osama was a TERRORIST. He masterminded an attack on the USA. And other nations. No help came from our supposed ally Pakistan. He was being hid and helped by those with some power in that nation. They betrayed us. Osama was executed after a fire fight with his armed goons. He was in that sense an armed man. No terrorist would be without. Those verses do not tell it only applies within one states borders. Did I miss it? No, where ever they are hidden. We share a planet I believe this deals with those that will do evil where ever on this planet they are hiding out. To this day my people the Canadian Cree do not recognize the Canadian US border neither does our traditional enemies the Blackfoot. Fighting evil knows no borders.
JJ,
Parsons make good farmers. I have a collection of dads old step ladders. Being a horticulturalist I've use them for running vines and flowers on throughout my flower beds. Have to be well anchored in the ground though. We get terrible winds racing down the Rocky Mountains.

Again you seem to be hankering after what it doesn't say.  Were I able to post pictures I would insert here a colouring book picture of Jesus riding a raptor with the caption unmderneath which reads 'nowhere in the bible does it say that Jesus rode a raptor'.  I'm sure you'd be pleased with it, with your penchant for describing the extrabiblical.

[Boudi]

US law bans assassinations - Yes you could get a copy- consult your lawyer.  Taking credit for something and actually doing it need not necessarily be the same thing, that's why you need a trial (also obligatory under US law for captured enemies).

Martin, you made good points in your last post, and I agree here again.  We also have the point that America made the big push to try the Nazis after the WWII, rather than summarily execute on sight.  I might have passed some by, but that was the Nuremberg trials.  It mean that the winners didn't have to stoop as low as the Nazis, and that we could set a new bar.