heaven and hell

[ecuworrier]

i'm usually oh sooo disinterested ... but i was recently faced with the recurring question since so many folks i know well one person i know will state 'i believe in hell' which is being honest but is it really an appropriate belief for a christian....?

can we say we have been to hell .. if we feel we have had such an experience ... and therefore what happened next?...  and therefore by some folks stretch of the imagination(? or not) what the afterlife will look like? 

what is hell? why is it so many folks seem to live lives with such a complete disregard for such noble effects as 'i believe you will reap what you sow' .. and others live lives with such anxiety of what will happen if they do this or that that they have well is that really a celebration or expression of GOD's Creation? 

does it matter? should we just live our lives this way or that and just hope for the best; wait and see or ... who are we to tell they is going to hell ?  is faith actually a necessary part of christian faith or just a big timewasting distraction?


GOD BLESS!

Peace and Love,

[Jan]

my understanding of 'heaven and hell' is a bit different to the mainstream Christian one. Heaven and hell can be states of mind or 'conditions' (IMO) both here and in the afterlife.

The notion of going to hell has been used so much as a threat to people to conform to certain rules hasn't it?

[ecuworrier]

what do you mean by 'states of mind here and in the afterlife' are you suggesting there is no biological basis for states of mind?

GOD BLESS!

Peace and Love,

[Jan]

what do you mean by 'states of mind here and in the afterlife' are you suggesting there is no biological basis for states of mind?

GOD BLESS!

Peace and Love,

Yes ecu - in my understanding the brain is the physical part (the 'interface' for the mind with the physical world so to speak), the mind is separate - this part does not die when the brain dies. Rather than me go on and on about it - check out some online articles. One is here

www.victorzammit.com/articles/mindbrain.html

[AndrewF]

An awful lot of people say, for example, that they have had a hell of a day when it was nothing of the sort compared to what other people go through every day. OTOH I do think you can be in a 'living hell' - I just think that people use the term far too easily.

[Jan]

Anybody see the Al Murray shame and hell rant? 



(warning: contains 'adult themes' etc etc lol)

[saundthorp]

[tranchiebabe]

For the Son of God to suffer such an agonizing death should convey something of the extreme severity of the offence that sin is before God's infinite goodness!

A god who could come up with that is altogether evil, imo!

[Boudi]

Hi Saundthorpe,
I know your beliefs are held very sincerely, so I'm reluctant to say they are wrong, especially since they are so well articulated.  I think though that it's worth mentioning that it is only one idea of heaven,
I think it's been said so often, but that it is true, that seperation from God is hell, and connection with God is heaven.

This of course doesn't need a seperate place, other than the human heart.

[Jan]

Hello Saundthorpe - we already know don't we (from previous debates on the previous forum) what each of our views are regarding hell, so there is no real point in going over old ground there.

Just wanted to ask you though when you say 'actually, its worse than fire' - what exactly do you think it is - bearing in mind that the physical body is dead, the spiritual body is not a physical body so in theory would not feel physical pain of anything 'a kin' to fire.

[AndyHB]

A god who could come up with that is altogether evil, imo!

Why, T'fedd?  Surely you, as a parent, have experienced times when you would have gone through anything to ensure the safety of your children?

What difference is there between that and what God did by allowing his son to be tortured and killed.  Look at all the stories that have emerged from wartime Germany that tell of parents enduring anything to protect their children from discovery or abuse - and I suspect similar stories exist from British concentration camps of the Boer War.

[tranchiebabe]

God is NOT my flipping father, neither I am his child! I had one father I certainly don't want another.

Anyway what a blanky lunatic God would be if it couldn't have come up with a better plan if it is supposed to be omnipotent. The idea of having its supposed son topped in such a horrible manner to save humanity, if it really needs saving because of God's screw up, beggars belief.

[AndyHB]

God is NOT my flipping father, neither I am his child! I had one father I certainly don't want another.

OK, let's take another relationship.  If you create something that you feel is vital for the good of society, will you not do just about anything to see it come to public availability?

Anyway what a blanky lunatic God would be if it couldn't have come up with a better plan if it is supposed to be omnipotent. The idea of having its supposed son topped in such a horrible manner to save humanity, if it really needs saving because of God's screw up, beggars belief.

But why does it beggar belief, T?  After all, until this point in time, all ways to people's deities involved the shedding of blood through the sacrificing of animals (or, in a few cases, humans).  He might have been able to come up with another way, but most developments in human society build on existing ideas and ways of thinking.

[Jan]

God is NOT my flipping father, neither I am his child! I had one father I certainly don't want another.

Anyway what a blanky lunatic God would be if it couldn't have come up with a better plan if it is supposed to be omnipotent. The idea of having its supposed son topped in such a horrible manner to save humanity, if it really needs saving because of God's screw up, beggars belief.

Are you an atheist now then? Just wondering because some time ago you wrote a lovely poem called 'the Far Shore' which seems to be about having faith in God through life's difficulties. Right under your forum name it says 'A Liberal Christian'

[ecuworrier]