Breaking up the UK, a Scottish issue?

[Boudi]

Just thinking about something mentioned over the weekend.  With the rise in power opf the SNP in Scotland there seems to be a sense of fear that they might bring forward a referendum to see if Scotland wishes to depart from the UK.  It got me thinking that this seems to be a one way decision, and that there may well be a situation where England, or Wales, don't want Scotland, or England and Scotland don't want Wales, so is it time to have a rerendum?  The SNP seem to be keen to go, and I wonder whether Britain sees it as too big an issue?
For myself I think I've made it clear that I'm very fond of Scotland, and indeed the Union, but I wonder whether the rest of England is apathetic about the link, and is the SNP threat a bit hollow?

[EliB]

I have made no secret of the fact that I'm very much in favour of the Union and although I'm fiercely proud to be Scottish, I'm also extremely proud to be British!!!
I do think though, Boudi, that there may be a fair percentage of English folk who wouldn't be bothered if Scotland broke away.....or Wales for that matter! There are some thoughts south of the border that England is the superior country.....it isn't actually, we're all as important as the rest, but that attitude certainly exists in some quarters!

I think a referendum for the whole of the UK for the Union could be dodgy!! But I also think if Salmond has his beloved referendum (that he's been threatening for years!!!) he could be sorely disappointed at the outcome! (Personally I'd love to see that smug look wiped off his coupon!!!!) 

[Boudi]

Dodgy because it wouldn't go the way you'd hope?

[ecuworrier]

threat?  you think that the SNP is playing some sort of hardball to attract more favourable calculations on NHS and other payments?

as far as the constitutional issue is concerned apparently ... if there were a referendum and if the referendum said yes to cessation then it has to come before the UK parliament.....  now, politically it is in the interests of the tories who have little support up there to let them go ... dunno though if the uk gov would set a referendum then and so on....

so it ain't something that would happen over night even if the overwhelming number of scots thought it would be a good idea

i think as an idealism it is an excellent idea for the regions that currently have their own parliaments to have their independence .... northern ireland would certainly have to sort themselves out.... but i don't see this as a neartime happening

GOD BLESS!

Peace and Love,

[Boudi]

You may have missed my point, I'm saying, is this an issue to be decided by scotland, or is anb issue for all the UK to decide on?

[AndyHB]

In a sense, as ecu points out, it is both Boudi.  You could have a 100% support for independence within Scotland (whether or not this was part of a larger UK-wide referendum), but it would still have to come before the Westminster Parliament.  I suspect that Labour would be against it, as a sizeable number of their Parliamentary strength is Scottish (41 at the time of writing this).  The Tories will be against it because of their Unionist background.  That just leaves a handful of MPs who might vote for it in the H of Cs.

[Boudi]

but if we were talking about a referendum then the choice wouldn't be down to them, just to us.
The issue was raised on radio 4 this morning.  An SNP member was saying that it was up to Scotland to decide their own fate, and not up to England to decide they didn't want Scotland to be part of the Union, which IO thought was a bit rich!

[EliB]

but if we were talking about a referendum then the choice wouldn't be down to them, just to us.
The issue was raised on radio 4 this morning.  An SNP member was saying that it was up to Scotland to decide their own fate, and not up to England to decide they didn't want Scotland to be part of the Union, which IO thought was a bit rich!

Yep - I think that's a bit rich too, to put it mildly - but is typical of the SNP way of thinking....!!! IMO it's as though they've got a massive chip on their shoulder and they REALLY need to open their eyes to reality or they'll destroy the Scotland they claim to love so much!

[Boudi]

try to hear it if you can....it's actually quite funny and could have been part of a sketch show!  'We want to break from England, but we don't want England to break from us!'

[AndyHB]

but if we were talking about a referendum then the choice wouldn't be down to them, just to us.

But referenda - at least in the UK - are generally non-binding.  Unless the Government of the day says that they will abide by the result of the referendum, as they did with the recent AV one, it will still be for the Houses of parliament to make the final decision.

[AndyHB]

try to hear it if you can....it's actually quite funny and could have been part of a sketch show! 

Which programme and at what time?  Don't think it'll be too late yet.

[Boudi]

today programme r4. it was one of the podcasts too if that helps

[EliB]

Cheers Boudi - I'll have a look.....always comical hearing an SNP walla make an erchy of themselves.....just so long as others see them for what they are....

[pow wow]

Our French separatists want to be an independant country. They want to separate from Canada. However there's a catch. They still want to use our money, they still want to sit in our parliment and the Canadian government must still send pension checks to the people in this independant nation. That's like the guy that leaves mom and dad's houise but keeps stopping around to raid the fridge and do his laundry. Well a couple weeks ago Quebec sent a clear message to the separatists. They have been reduced to two seats in parliment from 50 some. They no longer have party status in Ottawa. For now Quebec separation is on it's death bed. Oh and what really gets me going is they think the aboriginals would have no choice in the matter. I hope your Scotland stays in your United Kingdom. If they don't are you going to change the name? LOL

[ecuworrier]

You may have missed my point, I'm saying, is this an issue to be decided by scotland, or is anb issue for all the UK to decide on?

well as i said .... the constitutional arrangements require participation from the UK gov in order to legitimise such an act... and so long as the tories be keen to up the anti on creating interminable minority gov on the current first past the post minority winnings now would be an excellent time!

me i thinks there is merit for the regions as i said above... Scotland has 20% of the UK GDP at present....   which per capita is a lot better than inngland is probs better than Wales and NI....   the main risk is falling into the kindov traps that the irish gov managed to fall into ... there is no guarantee that could be avoided.. Scotland with its discrete judiciary and parliament already has plenty of autonomy and what with the clever Sammond (me i can't see what folks see in him but it makes a nice change that personality is not an issue)  i'm sure he has many tricks to pull still up his sleeve

GOD BLESS!

Peace and Love,