Hello

[Tabba]

Hi there,


I stumbled across the site from a link to the assisted suicide thread, so I signed up for an account as it seems a relatively peaceful atmosphere here.

I self-identify as an agnostic-atheist, tinkering on the edge of pantheism; I think I think that if there is a god, then god is everything, as opposed to a separate, physical entity in heaven. That said, I'm open to see any hard evidence that the god of the bible (or any holy-book) exists.

I've been on a few other fora over the years, so I'm more-or-less familiar with how they operate; I couldn't find a Rules section here but, judging by the overall tone, I assume we should just use our heads when posting.

I browsed around a few boards and didn't notice any other form of atheist on the forum, so maybe I'm your first; I don't seek to disprove god's existence to the believers here, but I am keen to see if this is the forum where a believer can provide objective evidence for god's existence; I guess you could say that I'm still questioning my theological position.

I see the forum's been recently updated, so I look forward to being a part of its growth as and when I can.

See you in-thread.



Tabba

[AndyHB]

I self-identify as an agnostic-atheist, tinkering on the edge of pantheism; I think I think that if there is a god, then god is everything, as opposed to a separate, physical entity in heaven. That said, I'm open to see any hard evidence that the god of the bible (or any holy-book) exists.

Hi there Tabba; you raise an interesting point here.  I certainly wouldn't regard myself as a pantheist - I am a Christian, and generally regarded as of the 'evangelical' type by most here, but nor would I regard God as a "separate, physical entity in heaven".  In fact, very few Christians would regard God in this way, so I think that you might find some very interesting things within the debates here.  The whole issue of 'heaven' is very much under discussion at the moment - especially following the recent publication of Rob Bell's book 'Love Wins'.  There is already a thread discussing the issues raised by the book; its titled 'Rethinking the Afterlife' and can be found in the 'Religion' section of "Inner Space".

I've been on a few other fora over the years, so I'm more-or-less familiar with how they operate; I couldn't find a Rules section here but, judging by the overall tone, I assume we should just use our heads when posting.

We recently migrated from a very old site, which no longer had support of any sort; as a result, we haven't created any 'rules' as such, but you will soon find out what is acceptable and what is not!!

... but I am keen to see if this is the forum where a believer can provide objective evidence for god's existence; I guess you could say that I'm still questioning my theological position.

I have touched on this on a different thread - "God-breathed = God-recommended?" - but I think you will find it nigh-on impossible to find any purely 'objective evidence for god's existence'; despite what most scientists claim, it is hard to find any even in that field - different people interpret the same evidence in slightly different ways, even there.

[Martin]

Tabba, welcome.   

[administrator]

Hello Tabba 

[Tabba]

Hey there, Martin & mclarkie. Thanks for the welcome

 

[Boudi]

Indeed welcome.  I'm a Unitarian, a church which is big enough to contain pantheists and even atheists!

[Tabba]

Hey, Andy.

<snipped>...nor would I regard God as a "separate, physical entity in heaven".  In fact, very few Christians would regard God in this way, so I think that you might find some very interesting things within the debates here.

I thought most Abrahamic religious followers would have said that god is separate from the place known as heaven; doesn't the bible state as much when it says that god created the heavens? If god created us, the Earth, indeed the universe and everything in it (and the heavens), god must be separate from it, and a sentient being of some kind, no?

We recently migrated from a very old site, which no longer had support of any sort; as a result, we haven't created any 'rules' as such, but you will soon find out what is acceptable and what is not!!

Gotcha. Thanks for the headsup.

<snipped>...
- but I think you will find it nigh-on impossible to find any purely 'objective evidence for god's existence'; despite what most scientists claim, it is hard to find any even in that field - different people interpret the same evidence in slightly different ways, even there.

Not sure I'd agree with that. I can think of many things for which there is purely objective evidence. For example, that we dwell on a planet, that there is light, that biological life exists, that there is a star (the sun) close to our planet that we can see from Earth, and so on. I?d probably suggest that anyone who disputes these as objective facts provide evidence to the contrary.

We can show empirical, objective evidence that there are biological life-forms in existence that human beings have named ?dogs?.. but nobody seems to be able to do the same for any of their gods.

The bible claims that some humans have actually met god, personally. Yet, today, there isn't a shred of [physical] proof for its existence. Would it not follow that if something exists that has a personal relationship with this Earth and the life-forms on it.. that there would be some kind of physical evidence (outside of personal testimony) for its existence?

Alas, this question seems to be sharply avoided by 'faith in god's existence'.

Indeed welcome.  I'm a Unitarian, a church which is big enough to contain pantheists and even atheists!

Hey, Boudi. Thank you, too, for the welcome.

[ecuworrier]

hi Tabba

delighted to see a new face!

you aren't the first proffessed non-believer here and some of us who are believers are less than thrilled with what the church tells us about GOD and the Bible

a GOD for all sounds good to me!


GOD BLESS!

Peace and Love,

welcome!! btw

[Jan]

Hi there Tabba - welcome. 

There were more of us from the original Faithspace site, but some haven't joined here as yet. The old site probably got a bit 'stagnant' for various reasons inc no new members being validated. We did have at least one atheist member on the old site. I guess my 'box' or 'umbrella' now would be Christian Spiritualist/survivalist/... with a few beliefs thrown into the pot from other belief systems (eg I believe in the possibility of reincarnation). I believe 'God' can be found everywhere and within each of us (no matter what our belief - or whether indeed we believe at all) - but God is there especially where there is love (friendship/care/charity etc etc).

[Tabba]

hi Tabba

delighted to see a new face!

Hey, ecuworrier. Delighted to be here.

you aren't the first proffessed non-believer here and some of us who are believers are less than thrilled with what the church tells us about GOD and the Bible

For sure. I realised a while back that it's premature to state that there is no god. Some atheists do that very thing, but I don't subscribe to the Richard Dawkins brand of atheism; science alone certainly doesn't provide satisfactory answers to some of the questions that many of us have.
On one hand I don't think anyone can truly know if god exists outside of the mind. On the other hand faith in a specific god/religion doesn't cut it for me.

Still, I do like exploring.

Thanks for the warm welcome.




Hey, Jan. Thank you, too, for the warm welcome.

Hi there Tabba - welcome. 

There were more of us from the original Faithspace site, but some haven't joined here as yet. The old site probably got a bit 'stagnant' for various reasons inc no new members being validated.

Indeed, that doesn't help make for a lively forum! Hopefully some new members will come across the site and sign up now that they can.

We did have at least one atheist member on the old site. I guess my 'box' or 'umbrella' now would be Christian Spiritualist/survivalist/... with a few beliefs thrown into the pot from other belief systems (eg I believe in the possibility of reincarnation).

On that note, I continually wonder on what consciousness actually is, and how it manifests.

I like exploring the possibility that everything is some form of quantum consciousness; some science points in the direction of a purposeful, rather than random reality. Who knows.

[JJ]

science alone certainly doesn't provide satisfactory answers to some of the questions that many of us have.

I'm wondering what sort of questions they might be?

[AndyHB]

I'm wondering what sort of questions they might be?

An obvious one that I have yet to see any scientist come up with an answer to, JJ, is 'What is the purpose of humanity?' - or more broadly 'What is the purpose of any lifeform here on earth?'

As far as I am aware, science doesn't even pretend to answer this kind of question.

[JJ]

What sort of leading question is that?  The question assumes there is a purpose.  Is there?
The answer could be whatever you want it to be.

[AndyHB]

What sort of leading question is that?  The question assumes there is a purpose.  Is there?
The answer could be whatever you want it to be.

But science can't categorically say that there is - or isn't - a purpose.  It can't answer the question.  Since many people believe that there is a purpose to why they are here - after all, a lot of mental health seems to come down to 'purpose', not to mention a host of organisations and their 'mission statements' implying that purpose is a innate element of humanity, I would disagree that it is a leading question: rather, its one asked by thousands upon thousands of people every day.

[Jan]

I like exploring the possibility that everything is some form of quantum consciousness; some science points in the direction of a purposeful, rather than random reality. Who knows.

I like the 'sciencey' stuff too - it is good to explore and learn.

I'll share this link (if its of interest) to a weekly e newsletter I get to do with the afterlife. Often there is sciencey stuff on there too. I find it interesting anyway 

www.victorzammit.com/week3xyz/

there is also a group on facebook which may be of interest

www.facebook.com/#!/group.php?gid=6417546403  (Spiritual? Sceptic? Evidence for Existence of the Afterlife)