Sexualisation of children

[AndyHB]

BBC Breakfast has revisited this oft-debated issue this morning.

The two mums who were debating the issue saw the issue in almost diametrically opposed lights, but they seemed to agree on an issue that I'm not sure I've heard raised before in this debate - that children respond very much to how they see their parents' interaction and attitude to each other and that young girls especially base their self-esteem on how they see their mother being treated by their father.

To me this makes two additional points - we men have a massive influence in how our children turn out, perhaps even more so than has been suggested in the past, and that therefore a huge responsibility rests on our shoulders.  Secondly, those mothers who bring up well-balanced children single-handedly having been deserted by the children's father(s), do an incredibly difficult job.

[tranchiebabe]

I watched the discussion. I am very concerned about children, especially little girls, being sexualised from infants. We have a granddaughter who is 3 next month, I have been frankly shocked by some of the 'sexy' clothes available  in the stores for one so very young. Not, I hasten to add, would her parents allow her to wear clothes like that.

[EliB]

BBC Breakfast has revisited this oft-debated issue this morning.

The two mums who were debating the issue saw the issue in almost diametrically opposed lights, but they seemed to agree on an issue that I'm not sure I've heard raised before in this debate - that children respond very much to how they see their parents' interaction and attitude to each other and that young girls especially base their self-esteem on how they see their mother being treated by their father.

To me this makes two additional points - we men have a massive influence in how our children turn out, perhaps even more so than has been suggested in the past, and that therefore a huge responsibility rests on our shoulders.  Secondly, those mothers who bring up well-balanced children single-handedly having been deserted by the children's father(s), do an incredibly difficult job.

There is evidence, Andy, that girls who see their mum being abused by their dad (or dad substitute!) can grow up believing that that's how men treat woman and they see it as acceptable and expected, therefore their self-esteem suffers greatly.....similarly wee boys who see their dad abuse their mum think that that's acceptable too and their view of girls and women is affected by this.....don't get me wrong - I'm in NO WAY saying that boys who have seen this behaviour as kids and who go on to abuse partners as adults have an excuse - they don't! But education needs to start early - which is why organisations like **** Crisis and Women's Aid go into schools - to educate boys AND girls - because they don't always, sadly, get that education at home!

[AndrewF]

I don't think he would dispute this Eli - in fact I suspect that this is what he was pointing to in his last para!

[AndyHB]

I don't think he would dispute this Eli - in fact I suspect that this is what he was pointing to in his last para!

I was that, Andrew.  Just trying to highlight it again - though I also know that on a place like this I (and any similar commentators) are likely to be talking to the already convinced!!  However, I was also trying to make a wider point about the importance of the gender balance, and that - I know - will be that much more contentious.

[JJ]

I suppose with your wider point you're referring to homosexual parents aren't ya?
Am I wrong or am I right?


Anyway I think the commentators are referring to families where there is strife and abusive behaviour - from either sex.

[AndyHB]

I suppose with your wider point you're referring to homosexual parents aren't ya?
Am I wrong or am I right?

Amongst other non-traditional forms of relationship, JJ; yes.

Anyway I think the commentators are referring to families where there is strife and abusive behaviour - from either sex.

And I would understand them to be referring to the importance of a gender balance within parents, in addition to the detrimental nature of strife and abuse.

I am by no means the only person who believes that Zachary Furnish-John is little more than totem child, who shares his "parents'" names but, at least until he is 'house-trained', is not actually central to their respective lives - in much the way that the children of grandees have often had little more than such symbolic value.

[JJ]

You can be as prejudiced as you like about the Elton John family dynamics - unless you are in that nursery you don't know, do you?   I would be extremely annoyed for you or anyone else to suggest that a child of mine was a fashion accessory.  The same goes for John, I'm sure. Are you saying he has no natural desire for a child?  How do you know?

Anyway, are you extrapolating from the BBC interview or was that the main thrust of the discussion?  I didn't see it so can't say.

Statistics show overwhelmingly that children don't thrive in families where there is neglect and abuse.  Nothing to do with gender imbalance.   Children learn self esteem from healthy relationships where they see respect and they feel valued.

[AndyHB]

I would be extremely annoyed for you or anyone else to suggest that a child of mine was a fashion accessory.  The same goes for John, I'm sure. Are you saying he has no natural desire for a child?  How do you know?

I'd go as far as to say that too many children are 'fashion items' as you call them - and that is regardless of the parent's sexual orientation.  For one thing, more and more women are regarding having children as a right.  It is certainly a natural desire, but by no means a right.

Anyway, are you extrapolating from the BBC interview or was that the main thrust of the discussion?  I didn't see it so can't say.

I'm taking what was said and building on it, yes.

Statistics show overwhelmingly that children don't thrive in families where there is neglect and abuse.  Nothing to do with gender imbalance.   Children learn self esteem from healthy relationships where they see respect and they feel valued.

The two women in the interview were very clear in their reference to 'mothers' and 'fathers'.  Furthermore, report after report from across the world has pinpointed the importance of a gender balance within parenting couples.  Whether we take evolution or religious arguments, there must be a reason why humans have developed in the two gender patterns.

[tranchiebabe]

My husband was at school with Elton John, in the same form, he said it was obvious then he was gay.