Stephen Hawking

[Jan]

Just sharing some article responses to Stephen Hawkings 'claim' that heaven is a fairy story

I'd stake my life that Stephen Hawking is wrong about heaven

Physicists embroiled in celebrity row

Hawking: I've solved black holes

[AndrewF]

any good<i/> scientist will admit that the 'laws' we have are only theories - and are subject to revision with greater understanding. This is where I have a problem with Hawking as he seems to believe that the laws he promulgates are irrefutably true - at least until HE wants to change his mind!

[tranchiebabe]

I think the Christian idea of heaven is a fairy story, I certainly hope so. Some sort of afterlife might exist if the consciousness survives death,  but it is not likely to be a place where you sing praises to a deity forever, god help us!

[AndyHB]

I think the Christian idea of heaven is a fairy story, I certainly hope so. Some sort of afterlife might exist if the consciousness survives death,  but it is not likely to be a place where you sing praises to a deity forever, god help us!

If only this was a 'Christian' idea, T.  If you look at the Biblical record, this has little or nothing to do with what you are suggesting.  Biblically, 'heaven' refers to a variety of concepts, from a renewal of the earth to renewal of humanity.  The problem we have is that whilst Jewish culture used a lot of pictorial language in this area, the Greek that was used to express the same idea for 'Gentiles' is far more prosaic and literal.

Don't know if you have read Dawkins' 'The God Delusion', T, but I found myself agreeing with a lot of what he said, simply because the 'God' he describes in that book bears no resemblance to the God I worship or the God of the Bible: rather, it is the God that was created (largely) by the medieval Catholic Church to batter the people into submission to human foibles - the God who can be bought by the purchase of indulgences, the God who could be used to support human ambitions and greed, the God who could be guaranteed to prefer the rich over the poor.

[tranchiebabe]

Whether a deity does exist, ALL the gods worshipped by humans are products of the human mind, imo.

[AndyHB]

Whether a deity does exist, ALL the gods worshipped by humans are products of the human mind, imo.

In a way, T, that would suggest that the existence of a deity is quite likely.  If humanity has to 'invent' a god figure, doesn't it suggest that there is something hardwired into humanity that requires such a 'invention'?

[Jan]

Whether a deity does exist, ALL the gods worshipped by humans are products of the human mind, imo.

I guess that could depend on what one perceives to be a 'god' - for one thing, people used to worship the Sun didn't they? (which is obviously not a product of the human mind - though sometimes with the weather we get in the UK, one would wonder) - some still do worship the Sun (sun worshippers - sunbathing  )

God/Great Spirit  is described as Pure Uncondtional Love, Infinite, Eternal, Wise, that which connects all of us, that which connects every atom ... ah there are probably more words we can use, but then again they are just words and God is much more - no words can truly describe 

[tranchiebabe]

Whether a deity does exist, ALL the gods worshipped by humans are products of the human mind, imo.

In a way, T, that would suggest that the existence of a deity is quite likely.  If humanity has to 'invent' a god figure, doesn't it suggest that there is something hardwired into humanity that requires such a 'invention'?

Not necessarily. Besides which not everyone has the need to believe in a deity.

[AndyHB]

Not necessarily. Besides which not everyone has the need to believe in a deity.

Well, from an anthropological POV, the fact that some individuals don't believe in something that is typical of the culture from which they come doesn't say a great deal.  At the same time, with the amount of reliance that modern Western society places on both science and money, it is very clear what are our 'Gods'.

[Jan]

Humans would generally worship that which they feared which they believed to be responsible for events they could not control themselves or for phenomenon which they had no explanation for (deities/deity used to frighten and punish people into submission).

Isn't it interesting that this discussion has taken the route of whether there is or isn't a God? Does belief in the existence of an afterlife or the survival of the soul actually need to also believe in God? I would say no, knowing that some atheists believe in an afterlife (because they have had proof no doubt).

[AndrewF]

Actually I agree T, though probably not for the reason you said it!
Our minds are so small (relative to a genuine deity which could create everything we can conceive of, and a lot more) that we can not possibly imagine that deity, so what we worship must of necessity be a 'cut-down version - something we can begin to imagine - and therefore it is a product of our imagination. However, that does not mean that it's *existence* is a product of our imagination - just that it's *form* is.