Author Topic: Sharon Shoesmith (of baby p case fame) wins appeal for 'unfair dismissal'  (Read 203 times)

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Offline ecuworrier

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none of us here are expected to understand the ins and outs of legalities of the case ... but earlier today when i heard the coverage i was struck by:

it was Ed Balls the then children's minister who pushed for her dismissal... and thus giving her personal responsibility for the outcome of the baby p case

today the appeal courts declared her an unworthy scapegoat...

she will be claiming compensation for the ordeal that she went to following the publicity surrounding her ....... through including death threats and who knows what

the thing is.... does the media have a case to answer ?

 the gov now is planning to appeal the ruling.... is this about fear of the floodgates..  and if so are we talking past and present....   is this just about someone losing theri job or is this about the future of the nowin proffession : 'social services' will we have 'social services' come the end of this parliament?


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Offline Jan

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I personally believe that this woman was used as a scapegoat - for everyone to put the blame on, when in reality there is more to it.
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Offline Martin

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Who'd want to work in social work?  If you do your job really well, the best you can hope for is for things to go smoothly and then you'll be mildly disliked or labelled as 'interfering'.  If you make a mistake, or if something goes badly wrong and a child is badly abused or dies, then every decision you made will be scrutinised and criticised. You will face as much or more vilification in the press than the abusers themselves.

It's an interesting dance, the blame game, when things like this go wrong.  If you're trying to manage a department where it costs an arm and a leg each day to keep a child in care, there will always be a pressure from above (ultimately from the Government) to cut costs by keeping children with their parents. Your staff simply don't have spare capacity in the system to place all the children that they consider might be at risk into care, in addition they have heavy workloads and much red tape and procedure to follow, they are liasing with other bodies like the medical profession and the poilce who are also overloaded.  It's no wonder things get missed.   

So whose fault is it when things go wrong?  Does the blame lie with the overworked social worker, the overworked constable, the overworked doctor, the manager who has her budget defined from above, or does it lie with those in government like Ed Balls (at the time) whose belief is that efficiency savings can always be found without compromising the service?

Well of course, if you're Ed Balls and you see a pile of **** heading your way, you will seek to deflect it onto anyone you can, no matter how fair it is to do that.  "What dreadful social workers we have!"  "How poorly managed the system was!" etc.  Never suggest that it's your own fault for paring it down to the bare minimum and insisting that there is never any slack in the system.
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Offline JJ

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 :good-post:

It is SO like that in support services.

Offline AndyHB

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Sharon Shoesmith appeal vindicated
« Reply #4 on: May 27, 2011, 23:08:47 »
You may remember that, following the Baby P case in Haringey, that the then director of Children's Services - Sharon Shoesmith - was sacked by Haringey Council under pressure from the then Children's Minister, Ed Balls.  Earlier today, the Court of Appeal found that her dismissal had been 'procedurally unfair' - not least, I suspect, because of the influence exerted by the minister.
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tranchiebabe

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Re: Sharon Shoesmith appeal vindicated
« Reply #5 on: May 28, 2011, 08:47:31 »
Shoesmith should have done the decent thing and resigned before she was booted out. Whilst not personally responsible for the death of Baby Peter, she presided over a social service department which was a shambles, and the buck always stops at the top! For her to bellyache because procedurally her sacking should have been done better, does her no credit. Baby Peter suffered all his 17 months of life, so her pain is nothing compared with that.

Offline Boudi

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Re: Sharon Shoesmith appeal vindicated
« Reply #6 on: May 28, 2011, 08:56:17 »
The buck stops with the parents who committed the acts against the child.
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Offline AndyHB

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Re: Sharon Shoesmith appeal vindicated
« Reply #7 on: May 28, 2011, 09:11:45 »
Shoesmith should have done the decent thing and resigned before she was booted out. Whilst not personally responsible for the death of Baby Peter, she presided over a social service department which was a shambles, and the buck always stops at the top! For her to bellyache because procedurally her sacking should have been done better, does her no credit. Baby Peter suffered all his 17 months of life, so her pain is nothing compared with that.
From what I remember, T, Shoesmith actually improved the service in Haringey whilst in post.  The problem is that society is so ambivalent when it comes to vulnerable children (and adults - especially elderly ones [see today's news about the state of the care home sector]); wailing when things go wrong yet being unwilling to put the money where its wails are.

I also blame our increasing assumption that a degree makes one a better 'carer', be that as a teacher, a nurse or a social worker.  This focus on academic ability has squeezed a lot of naturally-gifted carers out of the system.

Ed Balls was determined to blame everything on Shoesmith, since that would ease the pressure on his department and its predecessors who have failed our children over the past 40+ years.
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Offline AndyHB

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Re: Sharon Shoesmith appeal vindicated
« Reply #8 on: May 28, 2011, 09:40:17 »
Hadn't realised until a few minutes ago that there was already a thread on this topic, started by ecu (http://www.faithspace.smfnew.com/index.php?topic=186.0).  I have asked admin if there is a chance that the two threads could be amalgamated.  May I suggest that we continue the debate (Martin and a couple of others have already made some very valuable points there) on ecu's thread, especially if admin can't amalgamate the threads.
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Offline EliB

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Re: Sharon Shoesmith appeal vindicated
« Reply #9 on: May 28, 2011, 23:17:04 »
Shoesmith should have done the decent thing and resigned before she was booted out. Whilst not personally responsible for the death of Baby Peter, she presided over a social service department which was a shambles, and the buck always stops at the top! For her to bellyache because procedurally her sacking should have been done better, does her no credit. Baby Peter suffered all his 17 months of life, so her pain is nothing compared with that.

Whilst I completely agree that the buck stops with Shoesmith with regards responsibility over that particular Social Work Dept and she SHOULD have been sacked, I also agree with Boudi that the ultimate responsibilty for this poor wee soul's hellish time on this earth was his "parents"......I use "" because they didn't fulfill that role at ALL!!

But I don't have any faith in ANY Social Work Dept full stop....granted there will be decent Social Workers out there somewhere.....just never come across any! Any of the ones I know are either bampots or extremely dangerous!! The ones in charge of Baby P's case certainly seem to fall under the latter category!! And will lessons ultimately be learned? Sadly, probably not(!)

Offline Boudi

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I believe the problem here was that she learned she'd been fired by hearing it on the news.  She hadn't had anything said to her, and hadn't had a chance to put her case forward.  This was the problem.  Politicians often tend to have this kneejerk reaction, and perhaps they deserve all they get for using people as scapegoats.  If we are to say that the people at the top of the ladder should go then why didn't Ed Balls go?  Seems that these ladders have breaks in them where appropriate.
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Offline AndrewF

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I think I am right to say that the post she was appointed to, as a result of the Victoria Kilbier(?) case, held legal responsibility for sorting out the procedures and liability for failures of those procedures, so she was legally liable and therefore did deserve to loose her job. I agree it is a sod of a job, and one I would never in a lifetime even consider going into, and that she had no control over how well the cops and medics performed their part, but she did have responsibility for seeing that they had a chance to do their bit, and saying (as she did on the R4 interview that she could not do anything about the docs not having an apointment available for 4 weeks after being contacted is not acceptable. That sort of case should be seen as a priority and it was up to her to make sure that her staff got that priority.
I also agree that the *way* she was sacked was wrong.
That said, I'm sorry, but it was right that she *was* sacked.
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Offline ecuworrier

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hmmm are kids really the sole responsibility of their parents? sure there are some who see that as their role and desire and enjoyment and all that ... but the occurence and appearance of kids has nothing to do with social responsibility... except the game by numbers the vain hope that the offspring will loook after their biological elders where they get too old to be industrially useful ......so i guess we could go back to the victorian era where those annoying offspring got swept up the fallout into poor houses and orphanages ..... paid for by the goodness of philanthropists and paltry 'statutory' contributions...


or we could keep things as it is and that means the village is the state or hey let the parents take the responsibility and control rigorously

or take the brave new world route of hey who is allowed to have children biologically or who is allowed to care for them.... now i can see that being a really interesting discussiuon for a tax conscious generation of personal social interests and shaping the state!

adults and children parents and their offspring

either way we sure got a world crisis of .... who is gonna take care of the kids and by what means?


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Offline AndrewF

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Actually yes, the parents DO have the sole responsibility, until they either give it up voluntarily by placing the child for adoption or have it taken from then by the law courts due to them proving that they are not capable of exercising that responsibility. The can ask someone to share that responsibility (and on a day-to-day basis many of us do - for example while the child is in a day nursery or even at school), but ultimately the buck stops with them.
The problem in this case is that the parents HAD shown their inability to exercise their responsibility, but the system which was supposed to pick this up had failed to do so, or at least had failed to act decisively on that knowledge. The person who was responsible for ensuring that such parental inadequacies were noted and acted upon was Ms Shoesmith. Since she failed to ensure that action was taken I'm afraid she showed herself not to be up to the job.
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Offline AndyHB

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hmmm are kids really the sole responsibility of their parents?
Contrary to what Andrew F suggests in his subsequent post, I'd suggest that the law is ambivalent on this issue.  For instance, a parent who fails to ensure that they child attends school can be held responsible for this until the child is 16; yet that same parent can often be taken completely out of the decision circle if the child is a female who wants to access sexual health advice because the law seems to regard this as something the parent can have no say in the process.
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