The Queen's visit to the Republic of Ireland

[ecuworrier]

heard a bit on the radio... was wowed by the irish woman president! they seem pretty good at choosing those!

GOD BLESS!

Peace and Love,

[Boudi]

Of course, hsitorically Ireland was given to the English by the Pope, who insisted that, I think, Henry II invade and get them in line.

Are you suggesting that the devout Catholic Irish Republicans ought to the blaming the Pope for all their troubles, not the Brits?  (I had forgotten this point, by the way, though there is debate as to whether the relevant Papal bull was actually genuine.)

His fault for telling us to do it, and partly ours for doing it.  If the pope told us to jump in the river  etc......

[Boudi]

You can't get away from the fact Ireland was treated abysmally by the British, and Britain is to blame for the subsequent uprising. The troubles which followed in the 60s were partly caused by Ian Paisley and his unionist sympathisers and their sick view of religion. That is not in any shape or form to excuse the actions of the IRA which are wholly evil.

What are the specifics of the treatment, and were they specific to the 'irish', or just to poor, or less developed communities/countries?  Forgive me for pointing out too, but Paisley is Irish, so should Britain apologise for the Irish?  It seems a bit much.

[AndrewF]

As someone whose family was involved in the first wave of people who could be called 'English' invading and suppressing the Irish (and indeed were responsible somewhat later for introducing gunpowder to that country according to family legend!)...... - It was actually in the reign of William the Conquerer, and we got the Barony of Slane for our trouble. (Before anyone asks we lost it after backing the wrong horse at the Battle of the Boyne.)
I can assure you that we did not treat the indigenous Irish at all well - they were little better than slaves. But then so were all serfs..... The Irish were treated no worse than the Anglo-Saxons by the Normans. In later centuries the 'English' started to be better treated than any of the Celtic tribes, not least because those tribes tried to make life difficult for the powers that be (or were) - no doubt because they felt they were not being treated very well...
The biggest problem is that, like the Bourbons, the Irish forgot nothing (and learned nothing). They still harbor grudges from 1000 years ago.

[Boudi]

Thank you Andrew, you make the points I was going to make, but nno-one got back to me with the bad 'we' did.  the Irtish were generally simple and poor, and they lived in times when the simple and poor were less well regarded andf were certainly not looked after.  In ireland you had a farm and nothing to live on, here in England you lived in a slum with 5 families and bred children to be killed in the pits or the factories.  If the typhus didn't get you first.
They used the potatoes that were spare to make chips to put on their shoulders.