Message #722

[AndyHB]

Life exists, and can be proven to exist whereas god cannot be proven to exist (at least not so far). Because we cannot prove B does not automatically follow that, therefore, A does not exist either. That's somewhat unreliable logic.

But in a way, that is precisely what you are doing, Tabba - you are arguing that whilst some things can't be proved evidentially, they clearly exist, but because God can't be proven evidentially, he can't exist - and non-sequitur argument.

Love is not just a bio-chemical feeling contained within the body of the 'lover'. Outward, physical signs can be seen, measured and felt by the recipients of the love, or the hate.
We could also measure your brain-chemistry when you're thinking of them, compared to when you're thinking of someone you do not love.

Often the outward, physical signs can be faked, Tabba.  It is amazing how many stories of broken relationships revolve around people having no idea from their partner's or friend's behaviour that they didn't love them/love them any longer.  Brain-chemistry around love is, I'm told, very similar to that involved in liking strongly - but not loving.  Obviously, love/like compared to hate may well be obvious - though I'm told that strong emotions like love and hate are also remarkably similar in many ways.

or prove scientifically why I enjoy helping develop a heritage railway?

Yes. By observation of personal, past experiences. It can easily be shown that human being preferences can and are formed by external stimuli.

I had very little interest in railways until I was about 40, Tabba - had other interests which then became impossible to enjoy because of being away from places they could be followed.  I also notice that you are happy to take observations of personal. past experiences into account in this kind of context, but not when it comes to the existence or otherwise of God!

There is far too much in life that has no scientific evidence - yet we know to exist - for your explanation to hold water.

Such as? *And you have to present actual items that we can examine under scrutiny.

OK, here's a topical one - why do so many weather forecasts for 'tomorrow' change by the time it's 'today'?  On a more serious note,

Love, also, can be proven to exist. It's a common logical error to believe that it cannot.

  As mentioned above the two extremes of emotion, such as love and hate, actually produce remarkably similar chemical responses.

I've found that many theists often use the "love cannot be proven to exist" argument without really stopping and looking at how it undermines itself.

No, most theists who use this argument do so because they appreciate that there is insufficient difference between the scientific/chemical responses of strong emotions to prove one or the other.

We cannot begin the thinking process on the assumption that doctors are always right. It's fallacious logic and fails to deliver reliable end results.

I'm glad that you accept that scientists are not infallible.  There are one or two here who find that hard to admit.  As for the issue of my injury, I believe that it would have been impossible for the tendon to instantaneously detach and reattach naturally without (i) some sort of catalyst and (ii) some degree of pain.  After all, it had taken several weeks to reattach after the original damage, and did so because the damage had not been picked up initially because the doctors were more concerned with the fact that my other ankle was actually broken.

I have to go out now, Tabba, but will respond to the rest of your post later.