greek tragedy continues

[ecuworrier]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-13869428

i wonder how many folks like me thought hey europe has got itself into a big mess and they will have to sort it out... so thought that well ... the severity of the loan payback conditions such to match well nothing except before WW2 ... 

have been listening to various contributors on the radio (the guest experts) who have been coming up with some additional info....

is it realistic to expect Greece to meet the loan conditions?....   cos if not what are the real time consequences?


German banks and french banks have made loans and these are insured by british and US banks ..... the figures are staggering... there are some that fear we are looking down the barrel of another major crisis....

some commentators suggest that Greece should leave the eurozone ... am not entirely sure what that would do other than allow some creativity with playing with their own currency revaluing etc

some further feel that the euro is not a sane concept beyond a political one cos of all the different stresses and strains on the market....

the people of greece seem not too happy with what is going on in theri country......  on the one hand but the situation has arisen as a mixture of lies from the greek govt AND a mixture of not spotting the lies or the dangers by the rest of the eurozone.....   

europe is our biggest trading partner currently (though don't ask me what...)

is our own govt doing enough


i note that the beeb does not have a seperate news thread for europe ... interesting huh?


anyhows

GOD BLESS!

Peace and Love,

[Boudi]

is it realistic to expect them to comply with the loan conditions?  If they want the loan, I suppose it is.
 What would you expect our Government to do?  We are short of cash anyway, we are fighting on two fronts, and we have been bailing Ireland out.  Could you pay say an extra 20% in tax to bail Greece out too?  That's the only way our Govt could help.

[AndyHB]

I think we need to remember that the Greek situation isn't a short-term one.  I can remember hearing commentaries on the BBC World Service back in the 90s pointing out that the Greek economy, along with that of Portugal and Spain, were in danger of imploding because of a variety of factors - not least the incredibly favourable retirement and pension schemes they had and, as far as I am aware, still have.  'We', by which I mean the European economies, have been propping up the Greek economy, especially, for years.

i note that the beeb does not have a seperate news thread for europe ... interesting huh?

Yes it does - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world/europe

[ecuworrier]

is it realistic to expect them to comply with the loan conditions?  If they want the loan, I suppose it is.
 What would you expect our Government to do?  We are short of cash anyway, we are fighting on two fronts, and we have been bailing Ireland out.  Could you pay say an extra 20% in tax to bail Greece out too?  That's the only way our Govt could help.

i think a situation that is emerging is that we are indeed in it too by virtue of the financial arrangements that are part of the loan deal...

as for can they possibly not default... one thing that has been mentioned is that the greek govt apparently has public assets that it can have privatised and thus raise capital..... 

the comparison with pre ww2 is eyewatering just in terms of the scale of the debt and therefore the financial challenges.... and all this by virtue of a govt that was elected but prooved inept .... like the one the irish suffered...  it reminds of third world countries

the world has changed in a number of dimensions and countries that don't have a rich source of natural commodities that everyone seems to want should all be looking afresh at themselves... unfortuntely once a bunch of politicians have been elected the country is at risk....   a bit like third world countries ... where some leaders like a bit of lavish lifestyle and security of futures for friends and family the western trappings and so called aspirations at the expense ultimately of the poor ....

and as for what can our govt do?  it remains to be seen what happens in our own economy... the greeks have certainly benefited from the income from the holidays many brits can no longer afford and no doubt folks from other european countries too...  some may think however this brings pennies into the exchequer so not a bad thing ... however an awful lot more pennies seem to leave by the back gate of free market  foreign ownership of services etc...

our own govt seems all over the place what with uturns and who knows what.... but the kinds of enterprises that they seem to be prepeared to fork out does not fill me with much sense of peace

GOD BLESS!

Peace and Love,

[Boudi]

Hmmn...not impressed that you think the first step is to privatise, you sound like a Tory.

[administrator]

Iceland defaulted on their loans. I don't think the Greek government is strong enough to make a stand for it's people in the same way mind, or perhaps they just don't care.
Another casualty of the FR banking system, debt causes more debt and then more debt.

[ecuworrier]

Iceland defaulted on their loans. I don't think the Greek government is strong enough to make a stand for it's people in the same way mind, or perhaps they just don't care.
Another casualty of the FR banking system, debt causes more debt and then more debt.

not sure that Iceland was part of the eurozone

one of the measures they were taking was to place a charge income tax bill on people earning 8 000 euros ... previously it was at 12 000 euros...

so it has been seen as an assault on the poor

another measure was to place a solidarity tax ranging from 1% to 5 % according to ..income? (or something)  but why is it the people responsible get off scot free?

GOD BLESS!

Peace and Love,

[ecuworrier]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-13925971

lastest.... Sarkhozie is pledging the french banking system for the next three decades


GOD BLESS!

Peace and Love,

[administrator]

How generous of the French banks!   hey Greece, heres a neat way to bring in more austerity and tax to your people, and for only three decades!
welcome to the new form of fascism.

[administrator]

not sure that Iceland was part of the eurozone

can't see that it make any difference ecu.
The Icelandic government also protected peoples homes from being repossessed for two years too. you see they don't blame their people for the crisis the banks caused.
 

[ecuworrier]

having your own currency means you can play valuation games independently of your financial associates more easily than if you are a minor partner in a commonly held currnecy


i think that's how it works


GOD BLESS!

Peace and Lvoe,

[administrator]

But the Euro is no different to most other currencies, they are all debt based fractional reserve, run by the banks.
They will tell us that we all need to go back to gold based currencies soon, it will make no difference..
 
 

[AndrewF]

the biggest problem is that they can't afford they repayments they already owe, so how can offering them more loans help in the long run? Surely it is poring oil on the flames?
Certainly they will not get out of this hole unless the population (as opposed to the govt) actually get behind the austerity measures - which is so far out of character that it seems to me to be very unlikely to happen.

Either the Greeks pull out of the Euro (which would greatly reduce the credibility of the Euro) or the Euro will have to bail out the Greeks with a very much reduced interest rate (or better still a grant). The problem with a single currency an multiple different govt's with VERY different economic strengths is that the economies of the better govt's have to subsidise those who are not so hot, otherwise this situation arises. Basically if you want economic integration to this level you need to have far greater political unity - a united states of Europe - one VERY good reason for not being part of the Euro zone IMO!

[ecuworrier]

hmm .. indeed losing the gold standard has caused no end of baloons ... but i have never quite understood the gold standard... i mean gold is found only in a few countries so ...w ell...

the thing with the euro is relevant to europe and i agree there is problems with the way it has been put together as a political package rather outside of  market based principles.... 

however the euro is not the only zone that is a collective currency the US dollar or currencies tied to the US dollar are heading for an interesting time if the dollar collapses as some folks suspect is a natural consequence of the depth of US borrowing... who are we tied in with?  with food prices rising cos of the value of the pound many in our country are begining to suffer oh of course it is the poorly incomed so i guess they don't matter too much... which is what is affecting the Greek poor at the minute

extending the time for repayment doesn't mean the Greeks don't pay just not so much all at once... i agree with the political problems of the people and politicians not being on the same hymnsheet ... here we should have had these debates too and for some reason it has escaped us even though the economy and the future should have been the single most understood and debated issue of the last elections ... instead we got an expenses scandal to savour and get riled about

GOD BLESS!

Peace and Love,


GOD BLESS!

Peace and Love,

[administrator]