secret teachings of the catholic church...

[JJ]

In my view it is purely because priests at some point were expected to be celibate.  Some were happy to be so - but what about the others?  Instincts and desires have to go somewhere.  And in modern psychological parlance repression causes a Reaction Formation. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reaction_formation

[ecuworrier]

In my view it is purely because priests at some point were expected to be celibate.  Some were happy to be so - but what about the others?  Instincts and desires have to go somewhere.  And in modern psychological parlance repression causes a Reaction Formation. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reaction_formation

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clerical_celibacy_(Catholic_Church)

if it is a condition of your employment then can one expect integrity from the employee to own up to their issues and offer theri resignation?.... 

 while the employee may be appointed by the heirarchy of the catholic church it is financially supported by it's congregation...

i'm glad that you include the possibility that folks can be comfortably celibate.... me i have been exposed to some of the absorption of ex cofe vicars into catholicism by conversion and the resulting married priest syndrome ... a lot of the catholic laiety aren't entirely convinced as much as the traditionally based so established 'celibate' order within the catholic traditions... my experience is quite small ..... i was faced with one conversation with one such new catholic priest who was liberally extolling the virtues of being married... i found it very unconvincing as any benefit whatsoever to anyone... since his subtext clearly was the freedom to have sex and the way it came across ... was well.. hardly holy.... me i have more respect for the celibate priesthood even where it no doubt from time to time becomes tough.... i think there are great examples of ' you know that cafe discussion with single folk on the pull where the discussion of 'availability' comes up.... like you can't go for that one they are unavailable meaning they are hitched to somebody else....   me i feel something of that is relevant to the GOD and man issue....   me i feel that about GOD and man... that is not to say that all celibate priests are above the rest ... but it is ludicrous to assume that marrying somebody off makes somebody a more holy person... priests and deacons are different roles.... and it is possible that married folks because of theri experience  might have their uses... i suspect though that widowed and divorced folks might be just as effective if not more so... in this role....   

sometimes folkjs just might make the choice just to be like 'everyone' else.... and give up the trying to be something that clearly is not quite working! cos either GOD is gonna sort it some time soon or it don't matter enough so go and do something else?

the bit of psychobabble theory that you have linked... is kindof interesting (got psychobabbled off from understanding it however...)... cos it's kindov talking about behavioural  (or mental) impulses from the deep .... where one's life has not been able to absorb a er natural course... surely that is true for absolutely everything about our lives with a few exceptions....  don't the psychobabble folk want people to sit down and hold their hands for ever while receiving cheques with the other.... please don't think that phenomena don't arise but thwarted impulses desires ambitions aspirations are part of normal life aren't they? the art of life is what we do about all that! in real terms... afterall sometimes having thwarted experiences is for our own good we may agree to when we are free of them... the Gospel is about Freedom cutting loose from everything ... on a Papa knows best basis... half the journey is learning to know and trust  that Papa does know best and if we just hang on Papa will show us exactly why what where and whatever..

GOD BLESS!

Peace and Love,

GOD BLESS!

Peace and Love,

[AndrewF]

Marriage gives people experiences which can not be got outside of a long-term relationship, and which enhance their ability to perform in the pastoral side fo the role of a priest. I am not talking about the sexual acts here, but about the experience of living with someone as an intimate partner, with all the ups and downs of any such relationship.
That said, there is nothing against this experience having been acquired and the relationship no longer being in existence, so yes, Ecu, a divorcee or widdow would also have this extra knowledge (though of course the RC tradition does not allow a divorce so in their eyes a divorcee is still married and inelligible for the priesthood!).
The other problem with an enforced celibacy is that it has been used as a cover for homosexuality. Men who were not geting married in the RC were frequently asked why not - and when homosexuality was a crime this was rather difficult - indeed it is still a bit difficult as it is seen as a sin to be this way by many (and even more see the act as a sin).  As a resuly, in order not to be asked this question a large number of gay men have gone into the priesthood, so they are no longer expected to be looking for a wife! The trouble is that it did not stop them from being attracted to othe men, and was a contributory cause of the scandal of priestly abuse of boys in the Catholic schools...

[saundthorp]

Andrew,
Unfortunately child abuse isn't just a Catholic problem, although from media coverage one might think it was. If "child abuse in the Protestant church" is put into Google there is a lot of evidence to point to the regretable fact that child abuse cuts across denominations. Why I have come across JW's having problems
Here is one link I found.
http://dannimoss.wordpress.com/2008/06/20/protestant-clergy-abuse-equals-or-exceeds-catholic-clergy-abuse/

Perhaps I have picked you up wrong but I don't think there is a connection between homosexual tendencies and the abuse of children. The desire to abuse children come from a disorded sexual desire, irrespective of ones sexual orientation. This is why I disagree with the argument that some put forward that child abuse in the Catholic Church is due to celibacy.
If a priest, or any person for that matter, has a disordered sexual desire, which expresses itself by wanting to have sex with children, marriage will not the cure it. Getting married will only involve the transfer of a man's unhealthy lust to his wife or children. Conversely, if a man abuses his wife, the solution to the problem is not the renunciation of his call to marriage. The solution lies precisely in his call to marriage, to love his bride as Christ loved the Church.

[AndrewF]

No indeed - I know it wasn't (and indeed probably isn't) restricted to the RC. I was just saying that, since RC priests were not expected to be looking for a wife (whereas other RC men were), it was a good way of hiding the fact that you were homosexual.
Given that the priests then were put in charge of adolescent boys (and indeed late teen-age boys) who were often deeply influenced by their teachers, it is easy to understand how they could also be influenced (possibly inintentionally at first) to agree to sexual acts. The more the priest gets away with this the more he might look for it and an escalation can set in. I am NOT saying this is the norm or that the children are at fault. Nor am I saying that the solution is strightforwardly one of 'loving his bride' (in this case the church) as Christ loved the church.
However, enforced celebacy for someone who is not so inclined (and posssibly someone who does not really have a vocation to the priesthood, but is using it to hide a homosexual tendency), as JJ points out, can result in normal sexual desires becoming peverted, so that someone who would not 'normally' even think of considering sex with a minor (of whatever gender he is attracted to) might well end up taking advantage of someone who is in a vulnerable position and very 'open' to him. I do NOT condone this - just trying to understand how it can come about...
As you say, the desire to abuse children comes from a disorded sexual desire; the question in my mind is what caused the disordering of the sexual desire. While there is no direct connection between homosexual tendencies and the abuse of children, there may well be one between an enforced celebacy, a homosexual tendency and the abuse of young men/boys.

[ecuworrier]

Perhaps I have picked you up wrong but I don't think there is a connection between homosexual tendencies and the abuse of children. The desire to abuse children come from a disorded sexual desire, irrespective of ones sexual orientation. This is why I disagree with the argument that some put forward that child abuse in the Catholic Church is due to celibacy.
If a priest, or any person for that matter, has a disordered sexual desire, which expresses itself by wanting to have sex with children, marriage will not the cure it. Getting married will only involve the transfer of a man's unhealthy lust to his wife or children.

GOOD HEAVENS do i find myself agreeing with saundthorp?

Praise the LOOORD!

but i found this a little alarmingly simplistic sorry "Conversely, if a man abuses his wife, the solution to the problem is not the renunciation of his call to marriage. The solution lies precisely in his call to marriage, to love his bride as Christ loved the Church.".... some would however argue tjhat Jesus is nowhere to be seen when you need a good ... well anything connected with the church... and it's not clear how Jesus and kerbing own abuse patterns might pan out in a real life situation... which is throoughly NOT to invalidate the various miracle marriage rescues that do occur from time to time... somehow Father in Law's have an important place in all this and role and even motherin Laws?


GOD BLESS!

Peace and Love,