feminism to blame for plight of working class men

[ecuworrier]

well it makes a change from the last 13 years are to blame
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-12970105


hmm is this trivial or is there some reality to this .... smacks of neo-victorianism

GOD BLESS!

Peace and Love,

[tranchiebabe]

The blokes can't hack it so they blame women! PATHETIC!

[AndyHB]

The blokes can't hack it so they blame women! PATHETIC!

Not sure you're being fair, T.  Having lived and worked in India and Nepal, where families are split up regularly (especially those whose parents work in government service), I am not sure that the growing pattern of both parents working is necessarily helpful.  A couple of years ago, I was approached about doing a job up in the North of Wales.  The assumption was that I would move there.  When I pointed out that my wife had her own business here in S. Wales and was - then - no more than 5 years from retirement, it put a completely different complexion on the issue as far as the person suggesting the opportunity was concerned.  They would pay for me to relocate, but not for me to travel back and forth to S. Wales, or help with rent on accommodation during the week.

I know of several other folk - both men and women - who have had to turn down promotion because it would have involved their moving a long way from home, and their spouse having to pack in their job.

I wouldn't therefore blame feminism, per se - but i would blame the currently popular attitude that says a mother who stays at home is an unproductive member of society.

[tranchiebabe]

I stayed at home to raise our kids as I wasn't career minded and was happy for my husband to be the bread winner. However I think women should always have the choice in this matter. It is no bad thing that men are expected to do their bit nowadays where raising the kids is concerned. Both my father and husband thought nappy changing was women's work. I don't think my father ever did get down to the business end of a baby! My husband changed five nappies, each time it was a total disaster and I ended up having to wash ALL the baby's clothes!  

[AndrewF]

There is also an element of truth for another reason.If women are starting to take up jobs outside the roles they have traditionally taken (and I say jolly good that they are), then those jobs are no longer available for the men who would have had them. As women are the new entrants into the field they will generally start at the bottom of the pile (though with any luck they will not stay there long). This means that it is the men at the bottom of the pile who are getting displaced.
It is noticeable because the women have only (relatively) recently been taking up the jobs. In a generation it will be as many women as men who are in that position.
T, not all husbands are as useless domestically as you are saying yours is!

[EliB]

I totally agree that it should be a woman's CHOICE whether to work or stay at home!! Unfortunately though, with finances being as they are, it isn't always a choice and many mums who would LOVE to stay at home with the children find they have no option but to go back to work after Mat Leave. That said, many CHOOSE to go back to work and that's fine too!!
My mum and dad did the whole "role reversal" thing through necessity when we were wee because after my dad lost his sight (WELL before the days of Equal Opps!!) even after he re-trained nobody wanted him....so he stayed at home and cooked and did the washing, and my mum went back out to work.
As for women doing traditionally male roles - my sister has been an aircraft engineer in the RAF for over 21 years, working firstly on Tornados and now Chinooks....she was the first female in the Tornado Sqd in that trade and had a bit of a hard time proving herself - but she's now a Sergeant and doing really well - but she's worked damn hard to get there - and has fully earned her rank! Has she taken a man's job? NO!!! She has every right to that position!!!!

[Martin]

I prefer to talk about people rather than men and women.  It seems to me that people at the bottom of the pile have less upward mobility these days whether they are women or men.  I think the fact that degree level education, still largely the province of the middle classes, is considered a pre-requisite for so many jobs these days, has meant that intelligent people from socially deprived backgrounds will never make it past a certain ceiling.  This is set to get worse with the increases in university tuition fees.

None of the three political parties will address the widening gap between rich and poor.  As it grows, so our broken society becomes more broken.

[tranchiebabe]

T, not all husbands are as useless domestically as you are saying yours is!

Now did I say they were? My sons-in-law do their fair share.

My husband was a teacher, then head teacher, he worked long hours even taking work on holiday with him . He also did three of his four degrees after we were married and had kids, so had precious little time for the nitty gritty of domesticity. As soon as the children got interesting he did all the fun stuff with them that I didn't have time to do.

[AndyHB]

I think the fact that degree level education, still largely the province of the middle classes, is considered a pre-requisite for so many jobs these days, has meant that intelligent people from socially deprived backgrounds will never make it past a certain ceiling.

But isn't that the whole point of the increasing emphasis on getting the 'intelligent poor', as one Labour MP I heard describe them, is all about, Martin - along with the fact that increasingly the middle class is being made up of what would have been regarded as the 'working-class' in the past (ie, a plumber will often now be classed as 'middle-class' whereas 50 years ago, that would have been a working-class job).  Rather than having a middle- and a working-class as in the past, we seem to have a middle- and an under-class now.

[JJ]

I agree with Rod Liddle, even though I haven't read the article fully.  it seems to me that calling it 'blame' is pejorative.  It might be the reason, but it's a good reason.  There was inequality of opportunity before, and now improvements for women mean that it's time for another push to see how everyone's talents can be developed and utilised.

Interestingly this week I was talking to a post doctoral woman from the Far East who probably would be better off divorced, but she couldn't go back to her own country to work as she fears that as a divorced woman she'll not have a fair chance.

[AndyHB]

Interestingly this week I was talking to a post doctoral woman from the Far East who probably would be better off divorced, but she couldn't go back to her own country to work as she fears that as a divorced woman she'll not have a fair chance.

Are you sure it was the issue of divorce that was important?  From what I have heard from folk who have lived and worked out there, its the gender issue that's more of a 'problem'.

[JJ]

For her the issue of divorce was the most important.  She said she felt unable to divorce her uncaring husband as her status as a potential employee back home would be poorly regarded because of her divorce and at least over here with her status as the wife of a foreign PhD student she felt there were more opportunities for work.

[ecuworrier]

between a rock and a hard place ... ouch!


GOD BLESS!

Peace and Love,

who agrees that some folks really don't know how lucky they are if they can get away with raising families on a single salary... makes it at times all the more impossible to raise families single handedly on low pay... it's about quality of life issues ... the place where folks live ... the opportunities for the kids from techie gadgets to activities owning and being able to run a car etc