Faith and the poor and politics and the like

[ecuworrier]

yesterday chatted to someone who said they had looked out for some relatives + friends and associates on the march in London.....   at least some of them were vicars and the like.... they took ownership proudly about the way the church had changed in the last 40-50 years the CofE that is.... though they were themselves somewhat removed from the church but i really warmed to the way they spoke about a view of the church that stood up to be counted on issues of conscience ... in this case the 'poor'....

...as Christians we have plenty of views about ... what's best for the poor.... and what we require from politics to achieve this end........   

soooo  come on now lets be havin yer

GOD BLESS!

Peace and Love,

[tranchiebabe]

People have a right to PEACEFUL protest, but the evil scum who caused the violence in London, and damage to property, should have the full weight of the law brought down upon them!

I listened to one trade unionist yesterday who was almost encouraging people to cause damage to property. Maybe the unions need another crackdown on their activities! >:(

I haven't voted Tory for many, many years, but might be tempted to do so at the next election if that sort of mindless violence continues.

[AndyHB]

...as Christians we have plenty of views about ... what's best for the poor.... and what we require from politics to achieve this end........

I think the most important thing is that whatever is done doesn't patronise, or appear to be patronising to, the people they are designed to help.  Not sure that this has been the case for any Government thinking for the last 30 or 40 years.

[administrator]

The church should speak out against the widening gap between the rich and the poor.

This I think was at the root of much of the anger displayed on the streets of London on Saturday. and the fact that tax loopholes the rich use, are not being closed.

[AndyHB]

The church should speak out against the widening gap between the rich and the poor.

This I think was at the root of much of the anger displayed on the streets of London on Saturday. and the fact that tax loopholes the rich use, are not being closed.

The church has been speaking out against it for years, Mike - and marching against it.  I think what I find so hypocritical was that there were no comparable marches during the Labour years, despite that fact that, not only did they make no attempt to close the loopholes, they actually created even more with some of the financial legislation they passed.

[Martin]

The church should speak out against the widening gap between the rich and the poor.

I think you're right to identify this as the important issue - though I think that the church is seen to be pretty irrelevant no matter what it says - mind you, if there were some more clergy marching against the cuts I think it would be harder for them to label it as a bunch of lefties and thugs.

During those fat years the rich did very nicely thankyou, while the poor stayed roughly where they were.  Now it has emerged that, during those fat years, we were all living on borrowed money.  And so suddenly we're all in it together!  Panorama tonight was looking at the example of middle England - the family on 40,000 pounds a year, saying that they were finding it hard to make ends meet when prices were going up and wages were going down.  Never mind them, what about the families on 30,000 or 20,000?  When every penny that came in before the cuts went out on food, heating, housing and clothing, what is going to happen when the income is 5% down on last year and the prices are 5% up?  Where can those families find that sort of money?

[administrator]

The church should speak out against the widening gap between the rich and the poor.

I think you're right to identify this as the important issue - though I think that the church is seen to be pretty irrelevant no matter what it says - mind you, if there were some more clergy marching against the cuts I think it would be harder for them to label it as a bunch of lefties and thugs.

During those fat years the rich did very nicely thankyou, while the poor stayed roughly where they were.  Now it has emerged that, during those fat years, we were all living on borrowed money.  And so suddenly we're all in it together!  Panorama tonight was looking at the example of middle England - the family on 40,000 pounds a year, saying that they were finding it hard to make ends meet when prices were going up and wages were going down.  Never mind them, what about the families on 30,000 or 20,000?  When every penny that came in before the cuts went out on food, heating, housing and clothing, what is going to happen when the income is 5% down on last year and the prices are 5% up?  Where can those families find that sort of money?

I don't think the church is any less irrelevant than the TUC and all three political parties to be fair. just look who the marchers targeted on Saturday, it was not the politicians but the multinationals and banks.

Your right Martin and the same thing is happening to middle America.

Andy puts all the blame on Labour. but it was Thatcher that adopted Ragonomics, the belief that all they had to do was help the wealthy with tax cuts and middle England would do OK as the wealth filters down, much like eating the crumbs from under the masters table.

All these years later and people are beginning to see that they are now enslaved to the masters, who are the rich elite, and that politicians have little or no power over the economy.

 I saw a banner being waved by one of the protesters, which said "we need regime change"... not far wrong IMO.

[Martin]

I agree with all of that. Let's face it, since Thatcher we've had the Tories followed by the Labour-Tories, followed by the Tory/Lib-Dem-Tory coalition.  You can't vote for anyone who will work for the people, who will narrow the gap between rich and poor, who will redistribute power etc.

And if you could find some such party, and if you could vote them into power, what power would they really have?  The power is owned by those with the money, they control the media, they control the economy, they control people's livelihoods, they control us.

[AndyHB]

Andy puts all the blame on Labour. but it was Thatcher that adopted Ragonomics, the belief that all they had to do was help the wealthy with tax cuts and middle England would do OK as the wealth filters down, much like eating the crumbs from under the masters table.

I wasn't 'putting all the blame' on Labour: just noting that whilst labour made no attempt to improve the situation there were no TUC-backed marches or calls  demanding that the loopholes were closed.  It is that hypocrisy that I find sad.

As for Thatcher being to blame, you forget the mess that Wilson/Heath/Callaghan managed to get the economy into during the 70s.

[AndrewF]

It is all a giant conspiracy isn't it Martin? - The rich get richer on the backs of the poor...

[ecuworrier]

sooo what do we as Christians require of politicians?

what are the 'simple' solutions and who have the best policies to achieve this ?


GOD BLESS!

Peace and Love,