Message #3345

[Jan]

There's probably no one single cause of  things that are reported as 'supernatural phenomena', but there are a few strong indications as to the cause of some of them.  Hoaxes rank highly - these have been exposed on many occasions.  Fears and imaginations are another.  Cold reading - people who are utterly convinced they have supernatural powers, who simply, and possibly, sometimes, unconsciously, feed off the reactions of their audiences.

yes there are 'hoaxes', peoples imaginations running amok, cold reading etc ... but then there is more. Much more!

On experiencing what I have experienced, if I were to ignore it or pretend it hasn't happened or doesn't exist - then I could be accused of burying my head in the sand. That is not what I do though. I do investigate - I do want to know more. See your 'rebuking' type of argument about me being not 'critical' enough or 'closed minded' doesn't really have any weight.

Not a ghost, but I have experienced what other people have reported as, 'strange phenomena',

so you haven't really seen or experienced anything like I have for yourself - it has come from what others tell you they have experienced?

 

I've seen unexplained lights in the sky - which, now that they've become more common, and now that I've seen a few launched, were almost certainly chinese lanterns, off the North Wales coast.

yes I have seen those too and I believe a lot of the lights can be explained by earthly means.

There are though witness reports from reliable and educated sources which cannot be explained by earthly means. I saw a light in the sky moving oddly up in Scotland when I was a young lass. I kept asking my auntie to look round at it (we were stood at a neighbours doorstep at the time) and every time she looked around, it moved behind something - like it was playing peek-a-boo with us     

Your sighting of a ghost leaves me non-plussed. People are suggestible, you demonstrate that your critical analyisis is very lax when it comes to these things, so that might be the reason you think you've seen a ghost - what you aren't able to demonstrate is that ghosts actually exist.

lol - and you say that when you don't even know me (or my husband) properly? Ask yourself whose critical analysis is very lax Martin. Both of us saw the ghost - not just me! I have shared this info before. Many others over the centuries have also reported ghost sitings. Its nothing new. We were pleased to have seen a ghost. It was definitely a 'wow' for us anyway.

 

I predicted that you would not want to let the last thread rest - I was so right. There is nothing supernatural about such things.

Just because you say you are no longer going to contribute to a thread, that doesn't mean that nobody else can. Without knowing anything about how or what I predicted though really you can't take my comment any further. I asked you if you had ever predicted anything - the correct answer in your case would be 'no' - rather than making what you must believe to be a rather witty comment about the last thread.

I could introduce you to plenty of people who hear voices!  There's nothing supernatural about that though.

There might be Martin - how do you know for sure it isn't.  There might be other things going on with the people concerned to do with their condition. My mental health is fine  -  and no chemical imbalances in the brain apart from the odd migraine here and there. The voices are not there all the time (thankfully) - I think that would drive me insane.

No I haven't actually been to a spiritualist church.  But I have seen videos of people cold reading and noted their techniques.  They can appear very convincing to an uncritical eye - so can magicians.

I have been to a Spiritualist church many many times Martin and I know what to look out for when cold reading is taking place. You would have to go yourself - never mind viewing the videos of cold reading, actually go there and experience what goes on. If the medium does come to you and asks you things, do not give them any answers other than yes or no or not sure (don't give them any info that they can cold read from and watch your body language). If the medium is really seeing, hearing, sensing spirit,  then they should be able to give you enough information and validation that your loved ones on the other side are still alive in Spirit. Not all psychics are mediums, but all mediums are psychic (work that one out). Not all mediums work in the same way and some are just starting off (fledgelings) so their info may be a bit 'woolly' (patience is needed). There are some out there that will truly 'blow your mind' with the info they bring through. They will tell you stuff directly about your life and your loved ones rather than ask you questions.

There is no good reason to believe that near death experiences are evidence of anything other than the activity of the brain.  As the brain it nears death, it obviously undergoes biochemical changes which will result in an archetype experience. The fact than many people report a tunnel with a bright light  is no surprise to those who study the brain.  People also have out of body experiences, say, when they're on LSD, which, to them seem very convincing, but are no surprise to those who study the effects of such drugs on the synapse.

remember I said that there was much more to it than that though Martin?  There is. Go and check out that NDE site link I gave earlier - which has many many studies on it and lots of info. Do more studying !!!

So yes - I've done some investigation.  But, more importantly many, many others have investigated and the massive verdict from people whose job it is to be critical and curious is that there isn't the evidence to support the claims.

I don't believe that you have investigated nearly enough yet - not when there is plenty of evidence out there and evidence you can get for yourself - if you wanted to that is. From what little you have told me in the past and on those questions I asked you, I would say there is still plenty you can do for yourself (nobody else) it is for yourself that you would want to investigate further - like others have done.

Those that you gave, that I investigated, wouldn't and, more to the point, shouldn't convince anyone.  They were simply not science, just as the one you gave in OP of this thread is simply not science.

The site explains what takes place, what they do, how the mediums are tested - that is what it is there for. Have a proper good look at the site. There is an email addy on the site so you can email them and tell them what they do is 'simply not science' - but you will most likely need to show them why you believe this to be so to have a valid argument Martin - given that there are scientists involved in the experiments.

This is just a taste of what is currently going on ...

Currently, mediumship and the survival of consciousness are the primary research interests at the Windbridge Institute. Even after a century of research in these fields, many questions remain unanswered making further investigation important for several reasons:

    The survival of consciousness is an issue of vital interest to the public.

    Knowledge gained about the mediumship process may aid in understanding how humans process non-local, non-sensory information.

    Survival and mediumship studies provide unique evidence for discovering the relationship between the mind/consciousness and the brain. That is, 1) does the brain act locally to transform consciousness which exists independently of the body and continues to survive even after death or 2) is consciousness a product of the brain's cells and synapses which dies with the brain?

    Understanding the accuracy and reliability of information reported by mediums may have important and practical social applications in a wide range of areas including grief therapy and psychological recovery from loss, the alleviation of anxiety surrounding transition (hospice care), assistance in finding missing persons and investigating crimes, and possibly the acquisition of knowledge benefiting scientific, technological, and social progress (for example, in ecology, medicine, spirituality, politics, engineering, astronomy, agriculture, physics, etc.).

At this time, mediumship data collectively support the conclusion that certain mediums can report specific and accurate information about a deceased person under blinded conditions, in the absence of any feedback, and without using fraud or deception (a phenomenon called anomalous information reception or AIR). The source of the information and the details of the mediumship process, however, are still not clear. For example, we still do not know:

    Do mediums get their information telepathically/psychically or are they actually communicating with the deceased?

    Is a medium's neurophysiology different than a non-medium's?

    Does participating in a mediumship reading help in the grief recovery process?

    Can mediumship be taught/learned?

    What is the afterlife like?

quoted from the Windbridge Institute site