Message #1268

[ecuworrier]

the heaven and hell thing....

it seems hell is something to believe in for at least some christians...  and me i finds it starkly bizarre... pondering on this somewhat involuntarily ... well i was feelin pretty fed-up...  and kind of bringing a whole pila stuff to a single apex...  the experience of hell ....   who is in control of its design.... well we have plenty of referencing in the Bible to wars and unpleasantries....  modern day believers are fascinated by near death and not quite but scared out of wits end stories where folks describe being taken to hell.... and us spiteful bunch are pretty fond of telling folks they is goin to hell unless....  or thinking about folks goin to hell ... the whole endtimes dialogue is pretty scarey too... so when a christian comes along.. and then gets cosy with some pretty interesting thoughts.. that everyone is going to hell unless they are saved and christians either get completely hysterical about what will become of their instransigent loved ones and or complete indifference... i know there is a sign and that is this that GOD's LOVE is someplace well distant at times from the frameworks of thinking but what is going on in those hearts....  Jesus has some stories and parables of gnashing of teeth and who knows what else... and a seperateness of those believers on the basis of what they have done.... not all who call me Lord etc.... i have found on my church travels these passages remerakably blotted out at times after all we don't want having folks upset with unnecessary self doubt and all that...

all the stories of folks being showed what hell is like have a story ending .....  at least the ones i have heard... asnd that is this Jesus comes and rescues!... they repent and all is well and they go onto tell their stories... sooo is the question of the validation of hell a real one.... this whole eternity thing?  look i is no expert but i was kindov pondering on the sorts of stuff that we would include as notions of hell ....like war persecution spite suffering emotional and physical and all that....   and everyone has their personal notions of what's the worst thing that can happen.... so if one was to design hell say in Brave New World has a version..... that you are completely terrified of ....   and magnify that umpteen times aND then stick an eternity sticker on it ... that would be pretty close wouldn't it?  it occurs to me as a thought (not entirely thought out) that the kinds of thing we are really scared of are things that are threatening and we have absolutely no control of or belief in being rescued out of....  but hang on a minute are these not suppositions of our status as physical biological entities as well as emotional ones sense of identity Spirituality even  necessarily conditional on being physical beings here on earth ... why on earth should we presuppose to expect that the substance of those notions will be composite of the afterlife as such....  and as such will be what to expect and therefore be a powerful stick.... the thing is ... in real life the threat of punishment whether actual or perceived ain't gonna get a whole lot of listening in a whole host of circumstances ... imagine the gurgling child crawling towards a hot iron for example.....   or just the 'stuff that attitude' or the red mist moments....   so how is this crime and punishment attitude with the threat of an eternal afterlife gonna have the remotest logic in terms of the humans who then get their tickboxes from their ability to be socialised into that happy band of brothers what makes up the chuirch and it's adjuncts miscellaneous as they sometimes appear..... it seems a pretty invective way of dealing with things i might say... but i think for me the main point or portion thereof is the irrationality of things that give us here on earth fear of our lives that that must somehow  be justification of hell .... as concept and existence... me i find folkls in the church who go on about hell in 2001 a little tiresome... i mean stuff like eating ryebread infected with ergot or having a bad trip on some drugs... i mean aren't all thsi perception of horror or terror stuff is dependent on how our biological features function (and culturally too.. in terms of interpretation... i mean someone having halluciantions or nightmares will appear pretty scarey and pretty real and after all many spiritual based cultures rely on the spiritual experience and wisdom of the few including at times the use of hallucinogens or fasting (creating an altered physiological state.... of no food and breakdown of existing physical structures including reserves in order to keep going) .. whilst someone else will just be looking on and saying 'you're having a bad trip!'......   all this perception and interpretation within a structure that is inherently unstable and about to fall apart any minute now unless of course GOD or nature has something to say about it.....   that sense of Creation that sense of GOD-ness something beyond us....  does Jesus actually promise a state of hell or does the whole hell thing have any spiritual function and i say this meaning in terms of Spiritual.....  it is true that when the Spiritual antennae are opened we certainly see things differently and we can indeed see some pretty grotesque and ghastly stuff at times .... but what has this to say about the afterlife? me what i would say though is it has plenty to show us about Heaven onto earth stuff the Rule of Heaven onto earth...

but when the body has fallen off what will we then see..... and with what for eyes? what will bother us then if anything..


GOD BLESS!

Peace and Love,

i gottago now