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2
The Lounge / Re: Obama Gets a second term
« on: November 17, 2012, 14:36:55 »
I am pleased that he got back in - did not think the alternative would have been good for US or the World! I tend to be of the opinion that even though its not my country, those in Power in other countries (especially 'super power' ones), often have some influence on worldly matters. Its usually best that they are caring and level headed as opposed to being war mongers
Also the name Obama - when written backwards is 'Amabo' which is Latin for 'I shall love' ~ so make of that what you will folks
Also the name Obama - when written backwards is 'Amabo' which is Latin for 'I shall love' ~ so make of that what you will folks
3
Prayer Wall / Re: My Mum
« on: March 25, 2012, 15:11:38 »
Our thoughts with you and your family Andrew at this sad time x
4
Religion / Re: Christianity taken to court
« on: March 23, 2012, 15:18:25 »Unitarians must be doing something right, as we never get possessed by demons.
Indeed
5
Religion / Re: Christianity taken to court
« on: March 23, 2012, 13:41:00 »
it is sad Pow Wow. Hopefully though many will come to their senses if told rubbish like that and will go and see someone medically trained.
I was watching a rather sad program about children in Nigeria who had been accused of witchcraft - and certain 'Christian pastors' who would rid them of their afflictions - pulling bits of black string, and stones from their heads - claiming that these had been put there by evil forces etc.
What is done to these poor children, 'in the name of Jesus' - is sickening
http://www.channel4.com/programmes/dispatches/episode-guide/series-43/episode-1
I was watching a rather sad program about children in Nigeria who had been accused of witchcraft - and certain 'Christian pastors' who would rid them of their afflictions - pulling bits of black string, and stones from their heads - claiming that these had been put there by evil forces etc.
What is done to these poor children, 'in the name of Jesus' - is sickening
http://www.channel4.com/programmes/dispatches/episode-guide/series-43/episode-1
6
Religion / Re: Christianity taken to court
« on: March 23, 2012, 09:56:00 »
This is where our own judgement (common sense and personal responsibility) comes into it though too - though sometimes common sense does not prevail and when things go wrong its 'oh so and so told me to do it'
I recently read briefly an account of a woman (Penelope Dingle) who died of colorectal cancer in 2005 after just relying on homeopathy. The homeopath foolishly told Mrs Dingle her cancer could be cured with alternative therapies and Mrs Dingle made her choice. Mrs Dingle refused treatment from doctors who told her she had a reasonable chance of recovery if she had chemo and surgery.
If she had been treated early enough by conventional medicine she could have survived.
Now I am not saying there is anything wrong with homeopathy - obviously for some it seems to work in helping them, and it even helps animals so it can hardly be called a placebo effect. But why take the chance and offer yourself as a 'guinea pig' when your life is at risk? Its not like taking homeopathy for a common headache or something minor - its your life!
I recently read briefly an account of a woman (Penelope Dingle) who died of colorectal cancer in 2005 after just relying on homeopathy. The homeopath foolishly told Mrs Dingle her cancer could be cured with alternative therapies and Mrs Dingle made her choice. Mrs Dingle refused treatment from doctors who told her she had a reasonable chance of recovery if she had chemo and surgery.
If she had been treated early enough by conventional medicine she could have survived.
Now I am not saying there is anything wrong with homeopathy - obviously for some it seems to work in helping them, and it even helps animals so it can hardly be called a placebo effect. But why take the chance and offer yourself as a 'guinea pig' when your life is at risk? Its not like taking homeopathy for a common headache or something minor - its your life!
7
Religion / Re: Christianity taken to court
« on: March 22, 2012, 15:06:44 »
I also believe in the power of prayer and that (spiritual/faith) healing is very real as it can and does help people (I am a trained Reiki Healer and I have also received healing in a Spiritualist Church) but I would never advocate not going to see a doctor/specialist to anyone who is concerned about a medical problem. Generally I see spiritual/faith healing as being able to work alongside conventional medicine.
All the Church needed to do was to put a disclaimer on their leaflets, about people seeing a qualified medical practitioner if they are concerned about a medical problem, or it could give the impression that spiritual healing can cure anything for anyone, and this could have disastrous consequences.
All the Church needed to do was to put a disclaimer on their leaflets, about people seeing a qualified medical practitioner if they are concerned about a medical problem, or it could give the impression that spiritual healing can cure anything for anyone, and this could have disastrous consequences.
8
Religion / Re: Council Meeting Prayers
« on: December 11, 2011, 16:53:31 »
As well as spoken prayers, we have silent reflection at Church when we are supposed to remember our loved ones in spirit or be thinking about people on the healing list. Silent reflection could be just that ... or it could be just a time when peoples thoughts wander into what they are planning for tea (ie we can get distracted).
I personally can't see a problem with prayers before meetings. Those who don't believe in God can still surely respect that others do and that they have members of their group that do. It doesn't mean they have to join in with the prayers or be offended by them.
I personally can't see a problem with prayers before meetings. Those who don't believe in God can still surely respect that others do and that they have members of their group that do. It doesn't mean they have to join in with the prayers or be offended by them.
9
News Review / Re: The EU and the Eurozone
« on: November 13, 2011, 16:03:07 »
There seems to be quite a lot of confusion & uncertainty right now - and here in the UK we don't really know for sure how it is going to affect us. Some wonder why we should be affected anyway since we don't have the euro.
13
Body / Re: The Science Of Life
« on: November 09, 2011, 13:19:00 »
And neither of these links led me to a properly controlled, properly peer reviewed scientific experiment.
lol - and I think that whatever I add or whatever I say - you will always come up with a negative - despite what info is actually given on those sites and elsewhere. Lets face it - its easier just to go with what is stated on the skeptics sites isn't it. Its all there for you - what to say, how to act. Easy! Much easier than investigating properly yourself.
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The Windbrige Institute publishes in non-scientific journals.
I think that you must be looking at a different 'institute' Martin. And it would seem to be known as Windbridge not 'Windbrige'
One example of a scientific journal which they publish in, would be the 'Journal of Scientific Exploration' from the Society For Scientific Exploration
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The JSE is the quarterly, peer-reviewed journal of the SSE. Since 1987, the JSE has published original research on consciousness, quantum and biophysics, unexplained aerial phenomena, alternative medicine, new energy, sociology, psychology, and much more. The journal also contains book reviews, letters to the editor, and peer correspondence.
Mission statement of SSE
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The primary goal of the international Society for Scientific Exploration (SSE) is to provide a professional forum for presentations, criticism, and debate concerning topics which are for various reasons ignored or studied inadequately within mainstream science. A secondary goal is to promote improved understanding of those factors that unnecessarily limit the scope of scientific inquiry, such as sociological constraints, restrictive world views, hidden theoretical assumptions, and the temptation to convert prevailing theory into prevailing dogma.
Topics under investigation cover a wide spectrum. At one end are apparent anomalies in well established disciplines. At the other, we find paradoxical phenomena that belong to no established discipline and therefore may offer the greatest potential for scientific advance and the expansion of human knowledge.
The Society encourages such investigations for several reasons that may appeal to different communities:
To the research scientist, we commend the intellectual challenge of explaining away an apparent anomaly or seizing the new knowledge presented by a real one.
To the student scientist, we point out that science does not begin with textbooks: it begins with the unknown and ends with textbooks.
To the nonscientist, we acknowledge that deep public interest in some of these topics calls for unprejudiced evaluation based on objective research.
To the policy-maker, we point out that today's anomaly may become tomorrow's technology.
from http://www.scientificexploration.org/about_sse.html
now that to me would seem to be very much a scientific approach - investigating further. Its rather like what they are doing with the neutrinos in the OPERA experiment(s).
The studies are done by real scientists, and by both believers and skeptics in places like the Windbridge Institute, the Rhine Institute and also big Universities such as the University of Arizona and UVA's School of Personality Studies.
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You, asking me, to do some investigation is a laugh. I have investigated lots of the links you've posted much more critically than you have! Your closed mind leads you to avoid questioning, when the report fits your faith position.
((( sigh))) - there is nothing more I can say then really Martin. You know everything already don't you?
I have been investigating this kind of stuff since I was about 14 yrs old - and I still don't know everything! It is an ongoing process as all learning is. I will say it again - it is up to you to investigate for yourself - I cannot do it for you.
You mentioned before about me 'arguing' back - well Martin you cannot make an argument about something you haven't endeavored to experience for yourself. Until you have that experience you don't really have anything to argue with.
My faith 'position' has also altered over time - and that has been down to what I have discovered or come to understand further. That can hardly be attributed to a 'closed mind' now can it?
Oh and I just had to add this for you Martin - it is in the 'box' of the teapots in space thing which you seem to be so obsessed with. Go on - have a read. You might get something from it - who knows.
http://www.debunkingskeptics.com/Page4.htm
There are a number of skeptics 'arguments' listed in the contents page - which as you can see, have all been heard before (before you trying them out on me that is). By me listing the webpage here it will save me some time in case you try to use them again.
http://www.debunkingskeptics.com/Contents.htm
14
Body / Re: The Science Of Life
« on: November 09, 2011, 11:42:37 »No, the links you have provided have been proved to be unsatisfactory because none of them point to a repeatable experiment under controlled conditions. That's all I've been asking for and you've failed to provide it. My prediction came true - mind you I cheated a bit, because I knew that such an experiment hasn't been preformed or reviewed under controlled conditions.
Actually Martin I provided you with links in the past (NDE etc) and a suggestion for you to check out the info on the Windbridge site. I also suggested that you should go and do some proper investigating yourself (because it is not for me it is for yourself that you would be doing it). If I give you a clip to watch - what would it prove? You would immediately start to pull it to pieces because video evidence can be manipulated and faked. If you want to get involved in some scientific experiments yourself then you know how to go about it don't you? Get in touch with those doing the experiments or set up some experiments yourself with others. Other than that we have what has been documented on the Scole experiments and on the Windbridge site - there are more sites to check out as this kind of investigation is going on - experiments are being repeated.
I did manage to find the clips I was talking about - experiments with mediums. They can be viewed on this link.
http://www.victorzammit.com/evidence/mentalmediums.htm
You will have to scroll down to find the actual experiments taking place as there are some other clips just before.
Regarding fakes and stuff done for entertainment purposes - I used to watch a program called 'Most Haunted' which was supposed to be about investigating haunted places. It got to the stage where myself and hubby would just laugh at the antics going on - spoons being thrown about, odd noises and gasps - stuff done just for the camera and not really a true investigation. Their night vision camaras appeared to just be cameras with a green filter over them to make them appear like they were night vision. Knowing that this kind of thing can and does go on for TV purposes and ratings does not make me think 'oh well - it must all be a load of rubbish then' - why do I not think that? Well because for one thing it is pretty obvious what is going on and because of all the other info and experiences I have had in my life.
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In fact, my 'comfort zone' as a scientist is to marvel at new discoveries. I am fascinated by the experiment which may have recorded particles travelling faster than the speed of light for instance.
I am fascinated by this too. For so long scientists seemed so certain that nothing can travel faster than light. Even now some are coming up with theories of why this seems to be happening - some theories involve the particles traveling through 'another' dimension. Fancy that eh - 'another' dimension
- I guess the main thing though is that they are willing to investigate it further rather than pretending it can only be a 'trick of the light' 
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If there were a controlled experiment which showed conclusively that people have a consciousness after death, I would be fascinated. Over the years on Faithspace, I think I have reliably demonstrated my credentials as someone who is happy to think outside the box, to questions the status quo etc. So there can be no credibility in your claim that I am taken outside my comfort zone.
It would seem from the Windbridge institute site and others that experiments going on all the time Martin. You can get in touch with them to find out more if you want to. If you feel that what they are doing isn't up to your standards of 'controlled and repeatable' experiments - then why not set something up yourself?
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No, you make that claim because you want to argue back, and you have nothing of substance to argue with.
Is that what you think - that I want to 'argue' back - lol. All I am doing is sharing info, which I enjoy doing - it is up to you whether you take it on board or not, but it is also up to you to find out more for yourself as it is for each of us. It is not my job to prove to you anything - you need to get that proof for yourself, whether that is personal proof or proof obtained from those 'controlled and repeatable' experiments.
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You are indeed right that you're wasting your time sharing links which don't show controlled experimentation, when what you have been asked for is a link which does show controlled experimentation. You're wasting my time with those links too.
well I found the links I was looking for and I added the website where they can be found. If you don't like the experiments or you don't think they are up to your standards - you are quite at liberty to run your own.
15
Body / Re: The Science Of Life
« on: November 08, 2011, 16:09:33 »No I wanted to see stuff studied under scientific conditions, that means with verified controls and proper peer review, I wanted to see repeatable evidence that could be taken by any laboratory and verified. But it isn't there. Please don't suggest that this is not what I've been asking for! My prediction was proved correct. You gave it your best shot and it wasn't up to scratch.
keep your hair on now Martin - you should have been clearer in what you were asking for - and no you didn't predict correctly at all. If you truly want personal evidence/validation I think you would go and get it. As it stands I don't believe you do.
Here's what I asked for (relevant section in bold):Jan, to my knowledge you have presented no website which shows a supernatural event which can be repeated under controlled conditions. If you say you have, then please pick one website which has your very best conclusive evidence, and post it here. (I predict that you won't
You failed to provide it and you know it.
There's no point in me continuing to investigate the links you provide. We must be into double figures now and each link has proved to be unsatisfactory in so many ways. As these threads have moved on, you've made it obvious that you aren't interested in looking at the links you post with a critical eye. That's because you have a closed mind.
As for derailing the thread - it takes two - and it was never about sharing scientific information (as you were trying to claim).
Martin - it seems the links I provide will always be 'proved to be unsatisfactory' for you because they take you out of your comfort zone so its unlikely that you even bother to read them anyway and I am wasting my time actually bothering to share the links in the first place. I could add more but what would be the point? You twist my words and your behaviour in posting can be quite aggressive, bombastic and belittling - for someone who comes across as a reasonable and quiet man in real life (though I think we have only met the once so its possible I have got that wrong)
Carry on as you are - there is no real point in us continuing with this now is there